Burning Crusade Alchemy - Page 3

◊ Kaubel · 08/28/06, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by Digo

Burglecutt (guildmate who posts here, whose idea I'm stealing!) had an awesome suggestion that addresses the herb problem while making World PvP more than a passing joke. The current reward for World PVP is a buff. Whoopitty doo.

Now imagine that in a particular hotzone, the mining, fishing, and herbalism nodes spawn 200% faster. The hotzone changes every couple hours. I don't know about you, but if the nodes in Winterspring were spawning like mad, my entire guild would be there in a heartbeat.

I know the designers are reluctant to force PVP on anyone, and they don't wand bands of ravenning raiders descending upon a zone and ruining gameplay for "civilians". Create a trinket like the Proxy of Nozdormu that you keep in your bag and lets you loot the hotzone herbs. When you have the trinket on you, it causes a 15 minute debuff that makes you a PVP target. So no destroying the trinket to get out of combat and escape death. This also separates the combatants from the civvies.

I sent multiple, related suggestions to Blizzard during closed beta and never saw anything come from it other than maybe the mines in AV.

Essentially, there should be multiple hot spots in the game that either the alliance or the horde can claim at any given time - raw (rare) materials for crafting, special NPC vendors, quest NPCs, etc. Or for a twist, have special areas which are always present for each team, but make them vulnerable to "destruction" so attacks from opponents could temporarily affect the productivity, or availability, of each.

• Chicken · 08/28/06, 4:39 PM

Originally Posted by henaki

I don't see why they just integrate crafting into dungeon items, similar to that of Naxxramas, only instead of using turn ins torwards an NPC, you create the actual items.

For example, if you kill King Jerk Fel-Orc, he drops a "Magical Harness", which is they key ingredient in about 5 different cloth shoulders of varying uses, and is more powerful than the actual drops off said boss. You destroy the solo requirements of said item, while still sustaining the ability to make crafting useful. It might be more forced, but it will sure as fuck make a Swordsmith happier when he can create the best sword "available" in Coilfang Resevoire.

Much better example:
Pattern: Shoulders of Spell Power
+32 to spell damage
+17 intellect
+14 stamina

Requires:
Magical Harness (Drops off final boss of 5man Hellfire Citadel)
2 Felcloth
1 Rune Thread

Pattern is available by completing a quest in the instance.

This also allows you to artifically limit the availability of certain items in new ways, for example, if you have a cooldown based system, you can limit the amount of Epic Chest Piece of the Eagles in by putting a cooldown on them, or a reagent required.

While the idea is pretty cool, I'd guess Blizzard is reluctant to do so because they want to keep dungeon loot BoP. While I suppose it could be worked out so you can craft off of someone else carrying the necesarry materials, that'd require a fairly extensive change to the existing crafting system to facilitate it.
On the other hand it would save on the whole "Hey, I just gave that guy 50 arcanite bars and a bunch of valuable gems and he ran off!" thing that you get now sometimes.

ElbonianMan · 08/28/06, 5:05 PM

Originally Posted by Humbaba

Jewel crafting has some interesting consumables, too. A few examples:

Black Pearl Panther Figurine: Increase Attack Power by 90 for 12s
Nightseye Panther Figurine: Increase Attack Power by 320 for 12s

Jade Owl: Restores 30 mana every second for 12 sec.
Emerald Owl: Restores 60 mana every second for 12 sec.
Talasite Owl: Restores 900 mana over 12 sec.

Personal manatide? I'll take that. Will there be an emphasis in jewelcrafting for burst consumeables somewhat like engineering?

An idea I've had kicking around in response to the limited resource spawns: Put in some 5-man instance with a lockdown timer of say 3 days. In it there are X wings each with minimal trash and a boss guarding a field of herbs. Each field would provide 15 spawns of a specific herb. If all you ever use is dreamfoil, go in with a group and get that or clear the whole thing and reap the profits. It would be hard to figure out the right balance since the playerbase would probably force it to be at least feasible for an all-blues group but letting it be farmed by raiding alts tips it toward overabundance. Then again, that last problem may not be such a bad thing.

Necrotoid · 08/28/06, 5:17 PM

Originally Posted by ElbonianMan

An idea I've had kicking around in response to the limited resource spawns: Put in some 5-man instance with a lockdown timer of say 3 days. In it there are X wings each with minimal trash and a boss guarding a field of herbs. Each field would provide 15 spawns of a specific herb. If all you ever use is dreamfoil, go in with a group and get that or clear the whole thing and reap the profits. It would be hard to figure out the right balance since the playerbase would probably force it to be at least feasible for an all-blues group but letting it be farmed by raiding alts tips it toward overabundance. Then again, that last problem may not be such a bad thing.

I don't know why they didn't follow up with raiding-useful materials appearing in raid instances. Dark iron (needed for raiding, but having some other uses) appears through MC. Essence of fire, earth, core leather, frost runes and elementium ores are less interesting implementations. They added obsidian chunks, but those have extremely limited uses and none are required to raid. Bloodvine was better, as it was used in the resist sets for AQ40. Souldarite and primal leathers were again kind of a flop, as they have no real raiding use. The obvious example would be grave moss on the way to Loatheb. It would just be nice.

Humbaba · 08/28/06, 5:35 PM

Don't worry, no matter what they do with herbs people will complain about it. The solution people want seems to be to make different potions require different herbs and to spread those herbs across various zones and instances. Even adding more herbs to instances like the mines in DM East or the ghost mushrooms in Mara would be a good start.

After more digging I have no idea which gems, if any, to hoard for jewel crafting. It looks like there are recipes that use nearly everything in game, but I have no idea what the rates are for converting raw ore to gems and no idea how many gems and how many pieces of ore are used in the formulas. Given that, I'm just going to continue levelling an alt rogue to 300 mining and storing everything I get without smelting any of the ore. I don't think it's worth buying out the AH without knowing the drop rates from the jewel crafting version of smelting.

clamshell · 08/28/06, 7:03 PM

One idea to make crafting useful to raids is, as mentioned earlier, to make the sets craftable. Now the results of the crafting will be BoE, this is true. However if you include a BoP item as a requirement that is combined with the BoE in order to create the final item, you could a) make leatherworking/smithing/tailoring useful to raid groups and add another item class to the economy if people are willing to spend the dough to get the things that their raid group doesn't have yet.

So you have the class item drop (mage, warlock, priest chest piece) boe, the "misc" stuff boe (idols/coins/scarabs/etc), and then some sort of binding element that is BoP and the recipe that is BoP. So the person getting the final item still has to raid to get the BoP part, but once they have that they can get the rest of it anywhere.

◊ blindworld · 08/28/06, 9:43 PM

Pff, you all skoff at leatherworking like it's useless.

Come expansion, we'll have argueably the best craftable consumable in the game... and my guess is it will work just like armor kits.

You just need to read through curse gaming a bit more to find it :P.

(hint: http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/s...e-insoles.html
pattern: http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/s...e-insoles.html )

Dakous · 08/28/06, 11:08 PM

Perhaps...a leatherworking consumable that grants 8 hours of reduced durability hit per death. "Reinforced bindings" or some-such. Even make variations - LW for leather classes (or, specialization dependent, mail), tailoring for cloth classes, blacksmithing for plate.

Can command a hefty price - 3-5g in the current world for leather+, not sure how it is for cloth - steady demand, and it's not even raider specific. 1% per death and ten wipes costing me as much as two wipes normally AND we delay (remove) the deployment of repair bots?

Manabar · 08/28/06, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Humbaba

Jewel crafting has some interesting consumables, too. A few examples:

Black Pearl Panther Figurine: Increase Attack Power by 90 for 12s
Nightseye Panther Figurine: Increase Attack Power by 320 for 12s

Jade Owl: Restores 30 mana every second for 12 sec.
Emerald Owl: Restores 60 mana every second for 12 sec.
Talasite Owl: Restores 900 mana over 12 sec.

I think that those are actually trinkets.. not sure though.

probiscus · 08/28/06, 11:30 PM

Those would be regretful trinkets. At least the AP ones. The only time I'd use either would be in PvP (as a rogue). Unless bosses start letting you drop combat for no reason whatsoever.

◊ Eej · 08/29/06, 12:13 AM

Those are trinkets that also have passive bonuses, and you also missed out on the other potentially good ones, such as:

Living Ruby Serpent - Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 150 for 20 sec.

and

Golden Hare - Increased speed by 30% and prevents new snares from landing on the user for 12 sec.

Savos · 08/29/06, 12:29 AM

One way you might get trade skills to work with a raid drop item is to have items need to be "enchanted" or something (cleaned via engineering or blacksmithing etc) via the do not trade box.

You get "Worn breastplate of the ultimate" that you can't equip or anything but you talk to a blacksmith and have him repair your new armor and it becomes "Ultimate badass armor of the decimator" or whatever and you can equip it.

Different ways to implement the Naxx system really though, that is all this is.

Jedah · 08/29/06, 2:39 AM

The prospect of flasks of fortification scares the hell out of me, because sooner or later it will become requisite. I was really hoping they were going to tone down consumables and the bases they covered, but they're apparently going in the complete other direction. I do like the idea of Alchemy schools though.

Pyros · 08/29/06, 3:14 AM

Black Pearl and Nighteyes... remind of me of Black Pearls and Nightshades... Corp Por!

Yea yea sorry :(

ayb · 12/01/06, 4:58 PM

Sorry to bump such an old thread but I'm curious about how well azeroth mats are doing for people leveling up from 300 alchemy. I've been saving tons of dreamfoil trying to max it out before I have to start using outland mats. Anyone know what the best path is?

Cryect · 12/01/06, 5:03 PM

Major Mana Potions give levels up for a decently long time and thats about it though Dreamfoil & Silversage are the most useful of old herbs.

Really I wouldn't worry about it you will reach ~365 easily while leveling up assuming you pick herbs as you see them.

Glaurong · 12/01/06, 5:35 PM

Originally Posted by Creediki

IMHO guild vs guild competition should not hinge around who can farm the most shadow resist potions. Perhaps this is a pipe dream of mine. Perhaps no other mechanic exists.

On the other hand, they already have some things in place that would emphasise the benefits without requiring immense time sinks. Cooldowns on transmutes create limits on the amount of items certain people can create in a time period. Combine that with potions that are Bind on Use, have unlimited charges, but are destroyed after x # of days. Now 1 alchemist can support x number of people with the buff. Who does he sell this limited but very useful ability to? The guild? The Market? a bit of both?

Consider it like the blessing mechanic alliance guilds have to work out for raids. Who gets what blessing?
Now expand similar buffs for other professions, or move existing buffs to other professions.

Result : Less farming. Less time spent on the profession. A Strategy element to professions and the buffs they provide.

Result: More tradeskill alts =(

aureon · 12/01/06, 5:47 PM

On my alchemist in the beta, I got to about 330 with the lower potions, but unfortunately ran out of dreamfoil for major manas. I'd wager that ten stacks of dreamfoil would definitely be enough to totally get out of the old potions. As the above poster said, silversage is useful as well, All of this is just prep, you'll find tons of Felweed, which you can level quite high with as well. Once you get through felweed, you pretty much have to be 63-65 to level it much higher.

Steelfleece · 12/01/06, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by christide

Originally Posted by Malan

Flask of Relentless Assault
Increases the player's attack power by 360 for 2 hour. You can only have the effect of one flask at a time. This effect persists though death.

Chance of this working on ranged AP : 0%.

WHERE IS THE HUNTER FLASK?

It works on RAP http://www.thottbot.com/beta?sp=28520

Cryect · 12/01/06, 5:55 PM

Originally Posted by Glaurong

Result: More tradeskill alts =(

Except for most transmutes requiring reputation.

Northerner · 12/01/06, 6:08 PM

Some things do require reputation certainly but that hasn't been a big obstacle for my alchemy character so far (TBC is the first time I've moved him out of Org in god knows how long). My farming/collecting character gets the mats/recipies, the alchy makes the pots and if I really want a particular transmute on him I can generally mail over farmed items that yield the rep he wants. I'm sure on live I'll want to level him up to 65 or so eventually just for the easier rep access and so on but in general alchemy goes up faster than any other profession and the transmutes are for the most part not core to what I'll be doing with him.

I still don't know what I'll do with my main though. I'm presently Goblin-Eng/Ench and even though it'll cost me a few rare recipies, I'm thinking that I simply have to dump Engineering. 1Tailoring (god, I never thought I'd say that!) will probably take that slot but I'm still waiting to see what the final version of JC looks like.

Liar · 12/01/06, 6:30 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Flask of Shadow Fortification
Increases the player's resistance to shadow spells by 75 and health regeneration by 40 every 5 seconds for 2 hour. You can only have the effect of one flask at a time. This effect persists though death.

Flask of Arcane Fortification
Increases the player's resistance to arcane spells by 75 and health regeneration by 40 every 5 seconds for 2 hour. You can only have the effect of one flask at a time. This effect persists though death.

Just... why? Seeing this and the Scryer and Aldor rep offering Arcane/Shadow resist recipes does not really indicate that Blizz is going to stay true to their "No more resist based fights".

Bah.

Pantone · 12/01/06, 6:44 PM

Why? Because people already farmed Fire, Frost, and Nature resist. After we finish those, we'll likely move on to chromatic resists--gear with high multiple resistances.

Resistance fights are just too good a way to slow progression and balance raid encounters for blizz to give up.

thebuddha · 12/01/06, 7:05 PM

Originally Posted by Liar

Originally Posted by Malan

Flask of Shadow Fortification
Increases the player's resistance to shadow spells by 75 and health regeneration by 40 every 5 seconds for 2 hour. You can only have the effect of one flask at a time. This effect persists though death.

Flask of Arcane Fortification
Increases the player's resistance to arcane spells by 75 and health regeneration by 40 every 5 seconds for 2 hour. You can only have the effect of one flask at a time. This effect persists though death.

Just... why? Seeing this and the Scryer and Aldor rep offering Arcane/Shadow resist recipes does not really indicate that Blizz is going to stay true to their "No more resist based fights".

Bah.

I don't recall Blizzard ever saying anything to the extent of "no more resist fights."

I do remember something along the lines of it was a mistake to have resist gear drop off a boss that requires said resist gear (Viscidus) and also that it was a mistake to force players to farm a lower level instance to have the adequate resist for a boss (Huhuran).

Both of those are accounted for in Naxx design. That is, there is significant craftable FrR gear for the one resist fight (Sapphiron) and neither Sapphiron or Kel'Thuzad drop frost resist gear.

Toabo · 12/01/06, 7:20 PM

Originally Posted by thebuddha

Originally Posted by Liar

Just... why? Seeing this and the Scryer and Aldor rep offering Arcane/Shadow resist recipes does not really indicate that Blizz is going to stay true to their "No more resist based fights".

Bah.

I don't recall Blizzard ever saying anything to the extent of "no more resist fights."

I do remember something along the lines of it was a mistake to have resist gear drop off a boss that requires said resist gear (Viscidus) and also that it was a mistake to force players to farm a lower level instance to have the adequate resist for a boss (Huhuran).

Both of those are accounted for in Naxx design. That is, there is significant craftable FrR gear for the one resist fight (Sapphiron) and neither Sapphiron or Kel'Thuzad drop frost resist gear.

And judging by the latest round of items to pop up on Thottbot, we haven't seen the last of Fire Resist fights.

http://thottbot.com/beta?s=infernoweave
http://thottbot.com/beta?s=inferno+tempered
http://thottbot.com/beta?s=inferno+hardened
http://thottbot.com/beta?s=inferno+forged