Warpony

Just an uninteresting update i guess... Just for the record.

Downed him tonight (about 4th total hour of attempts i estimate).

No TF, no 5/5 conq... Imp Demo shout.

5/5/4/2 MT/OT1/OT2/OT3

(2 Druids, 7 Priests, 7 Shammys).

OT3: druid + priest on
OT2: 2 shammys, 2 priests
OT1: 2 priests, 3 shammys
MT: druid, 2 shammys, 2 priests

Clocked in at around 6:40 i think. Healers had some 14% mana to go.

Lost MT at 2% (When SW wore off at enrage). Another tank popped SW and we killed him.

Big thanks to EJ forums and this thread that helped the smooth kill.

 

james

I don't get why you'd mix shamans and priests? Surely you'd maximise the effects of Ancestral Healing/Inspiration/Healing Way by not doing this (since Ancestral Healing/Inspiration don't stack AFAIK) ?

 

Boevis

Skill, Gear, same group = same MT, they spread out HoTs, just because?. could be lots of reasons, Inspiration doesn't stack with Inspiration, so it's rather irrelivant who you stick where except for the druids.

 

Warpony

Well, since our priests in general are at higher +healing then shammies it makes sense to spread them out. Druids of course only using slower heals, so theyr spread out for that reason.

(I might come out as a dumbfuck for writing the following since i'm not 100% sure this is the way it works. No idea why i never researched it, but this is just from my own observations)

Ancenstral and Inspiration don't stack, but they don't overwrite eachother either. You can have both on you, but only get the effect from 1 of them.
Therefor it doesnt really matter if you have 2 shamans and 2 priests... Either Inspiration of Ancestral will be up just as much as either one of them would be with 4 of the same class.

Math explanation (we'll even out everyone's crit chanse for this)

1 Shammy = Holding ancestral up X% of the fight
1 Priest = Holding inspiration up X% of the fight

You'r gonna end up with Ancestral/Inspiration 4X% of the fight anyway (well, not RLY, but you get my drift i hope) however stack the classes...

Or am i TOTALLY off base with this explanation?

If i am i'm gonna switch healing around, but it seemed to work well enough last night :)

 

Rogar

We had this problem in the past. At some frequency, Patchwerk checks if sufficient aggro is being generated by the MT and the original OTs. If it's insufficient, you'll see the HS list change mid-fight, even when no one has died.

 

james

But if you get an inspiration proc on a target with Ancestral Healing, you get nothing. And vice versa. It's easier to keep up inspiration with 5 priests - at least a repeated application renews the buff - and you're not wasting anything. At least in my head :(

 

Tel

3 priests 2 shaman vs 5 priests makes NO difference wrt keeping up the proc. Either it gets renewed, or you get theother proc (AH if insp was already up or vice versa) and the duration it is extended by works out to be the same.

 

james

Quite correct, hadn't thought about it.

 

Warpony

So i was correct in my observations as i posted above ;)

Thanks for pointing it out tho... I've only "assumed" my deduction was the correct one. It's allways good to question your own beliefs and get them proved instead of just running with it.

 

Malan

We've been having success with

MT- 2-3 Druids and 1 shaman
OT1 and OT2 - 2 priests, 2 shaman and 1 druid each
OT3 - 2 Druids

If we have enough shaman we throw one in with the tanks for GoA for the added armor and dodge bonuses.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Xtee

Actually on every attempt we've had 1 shaman in the main tank group (Main tank, shaman, 3 rogues) and 1 shaman in the off tank group (3 HS tanks, 1 warlock, 1 shaman) I'm afraid to do it with out my precious shaman :(

 

◊ Oggie

RAID UTILITY! *glee*

Seriously though, the other reason that shaman 'seem' to crit a lot more is it's more or less impossible to come up with a decent spec with any resto without 5% to crit on spells and AH. That, and crit is slathered on our gear and handed out like candy at every opportunity.

Hitting 30% spellcrit isn't hard for a shaman- it's not wise, but nor is it challenging.

Then of course some of our heals happen to hit multiple people- chain heal, 8/8 EF, ect. They'll pretty reliably hit the OTs because of the AI changes in 1.12.

Just commenting that for reliability of proccing AH/INspiration shaman may 'seem' to come out on top but that's a gear/talent thing.

One other note is that (and this may have changed) AH/Inspiration overwrite each other so as not to take 2 buff slots, so it really doesn't matter which you happen to have on you.

 

◊ Quigon

Counter to the previous - once you start doing loatheb your healers may have the flurry/mana tide spec - that one drops the 5% crit rate.

Trust me you can feel that 5%.


On a side: the numbers people give for healing is missleading - because on MT healing if its a druid or shaman does make a meaningful difference... it seems the ones who go lower on MT healing have a druid in the midst.

 

Whitemane

We use 1 priest for the PoH spamming, not sure how effective it really is though. We use the same setup on OT3, 2 druids are _very_ nice on the same tank. They can basically cover one OT just as well as 3 or more priests/shammies because of their huge heals. 1 HS ~ 2 x Rank 11 HT, sometimes needs a tad more on the top end HS'. We use 6 healers on OT1 and 4 on OT2, and like I said, 2 on OT3. It just seemed the right thing to do when looking at damage taken, but I guess damage taken between OT1 / OT2 is dependant on how many healers they have so probably doesn't matter :)

So basically, 4 6 4 2 .. where the two must be druids. Worked out great, switched from a 4 5 5 2 to that. Also tried a 4 4 4 4 for purely reactive healing, but that didn't work out well for whatever reason.

Edit: We priotize shammies + priests on MT, simply because we have the others covered with inspiration and it'd be silly to use druids on the MT because of that.

 

krucifix85

So you run with 17 healers, is that right Whitemane? That's more than normally log on for my guild, of relatively recent time's anyway.
:(

http://ctprofiles.net/13134

 

• Arawethion

We made sure to get up to 17 healers before we attacked Patchwerk. We'd even recruited a bit in the previous few weeks, we'd been very complacent with low healer numbers during the entire stretch when we were learning C'Thun, Razuvious, Anub'Rekhan, and Noth.

It worked well--we killed him on our first night. Basically, our kills have looked like:
1) 17 healers, 19 DPS. Total guild "A team" present. Supposedly our last "practice attempt" of our first night of learning. DPS was unbuffed for the first 5 minutes, until we realized we might actually make it. HS tank goes down at about 5:20, but no DPS splats. Killed in 6:55. Healers were scraping, MT went down at 1%.
2) 17/19 again. Good DPS, except for one sort of useless 5th prot Warrior who was there for the Plague Bearer drop. Properly buffed this time, 6:42. Healers were scraping again. Only death was MT, killed by Patchwerk's last melee swing (literally).
3) 17/19 again, 6:30, no deaths.
4) 17/19, all top DPS present, but the silly Warlocks forgot CoR. 6:24. Our first one-shot. Healer mana actually had a bit of breathing room.

Only at this point did we really consider going with fewer than 17. We'd seen that our DPS was good enough to survive probably 2 splats, and our good healers were actually getting comfortable with the fight. This week only 15 healers showed up, and one had a sketchy connection. We decided to clear the trash; I was thinking we'd pull with 14 if we had do, but didn't have high hopes. One more logged on though, so we pulled him with 16 (although 5 were Paladins).

It was certainly harrowing. The MT went down at about 4:30. We picked up on a new MT, and got through the rest of the fight with only one DPS splat (a Warrior who would have been high 700's), and one Rogue HS Dodge. Killed him in 6:00. Healers dry again, another tank died at 1%. It was very close.

---------------

Long story short, make it easy on yourselves. At least 16 healers is the way to learn this fight, and I would imagine 17 is definitely optimal for most guilds.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Malan

Whitemane - we tried the priest PoH gimmick also and then realized that it just forced us to bring more healers than needed for the fight. You can do it with 15 *good* healers. Spread your shaman onto the OTs, its much more important for them to get the armor buff than the MT (arguably it always helps the MT, but with very good healers on him with steady heals its not a big deal). We used 17 healers our first kill, 16 the 2nd kill, and I'm willing to bet I could have cut out one more healer on that kill (finished at 6:15.)

I think we were 4/5/5/2 on our 2nd kill.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Tel

Unusual as this sounds we run with 17 or 18(!) healers for this quite often, simply as it allows for extra breathing room wrt healer mana which is fairly crucial if your healers go wrong and the OT2 and 3 die before 70% like our last kill. (we had hunters playing those chars as our tanks are moving house together atm ;) )

Somehow we manage to go from 70% to 1% with one OT up (who died at enrage)... was bit touch and go at times, and i really cant see why anyone would choose to use a single Ot strat, but with imp Loh on him i can see it being do-able... just about.

 

Hiba

I think on our last kill OT3 died at 95% and OT2 at 90%. We still killed, 1 DPS warrior and 1 rogue died but they were combat ressed. OT1 had full time armor buff from shamans/priests.

Lightwell object increased in size to make it easier to click.

 

• Arawethion

So, one of our tanks wasn't there yesterday and we had to run with a Druid.

I was pretty confident that it was going to work fine, and didn't really think twice about it while we were clearing trash. We planned to have him be HS3, since I'd already told the healers in advance that he would get hit the hardest. We got there, started buffing up, and then I noticed that the Bear had more HP than all the other tanks. This kind of worried me, but we pulled anyway, assuming that as long as the healing on the two Warriors was adequate, it shouldn't matter if the Bear had the most HP, because he would only take a Strike if he could survive it anyway.

It didn't work very well. Only a little ways into the fight, we had a string of un-avoided Strikes, and it went something like W1-W2-B-W2-W1-B(dead). Both the Strikes on the Bear were 7k+.

Next pull, I realized the HP totals were closer than I'd noticed, and we finagled buffs to make the Bear lowest HP. It went fine.


So with that in mind, I'm wondering how other people handle using Bear tanks, or other situations in which there's a disparity in your tanks' armor and HP values. Which order do you prefer to set things up in?

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

FunBall

You took the proper corrective action for the second attempt. The reason people get away with fewer healers on OT3 is that he only gets hit when OT1 and OT2 get hit, and if neither are healed up fast enough. So a low number of healers on what has effectively become a bear OT1 will probably lead to mana problems pretty fast.

In addition, bears don't have parry and will get hit more frequently. This is another good reason to have a highly geared warrior with lots of avoidance as OT1.

 

edwill

We've killed PW 3 times. First time we used 18 healers, resulting a 7 min enrage at 2%, but still we managed to kill him. 2nd, 3rd kill only went better about 6:30, and 6 min respectively, with 16 & 15 healers.

Healer setups: 5/5/3/2 (with 15) 5/6/3/2 (with 16)

 

Kernel

Just released addon for healing offtanks on Patchwerk: http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/a...ke-healer.html
Enjoy

 

deric

More insight into HS mechanics:

My guild's MT2 couldn't make our last Patchwerk, so I boxed him as the 2nd out of 3 HS OTs (under a 5/5/1 healing setup) with my only aggro-generating actions being autoattack (with a Blessed Qiraji War Hammer) and stoneshields every 2mins.

He took HSes right on cue until the end, which shows pretty clearly that HS actively generates aggro.

 

Boevis

Adjusting buffs so that your best avoidance has the most health makes this fight easier than the reverse, bearform is crap for avoidance (~25% dodge for me, no parry, block, or increased miss chance). The only advantage a bear brings to this fight is as OT3 where getting hit for less means less healing required, since the majority of OT3s avoidance is essentially trickled down from OT1 and OT2 (at 20% dodge/parry and 10% miss on 1 and 2, OT2 only becomes the target 50% of the time, OT3 only becomes the target 25% of the time.)