Question about buffs that came up earlier in this thread, and also in our raids. Someone in our guild was saying that mageblood no longer stacks with blessing of wisdom. Can someone confirm or deny this?
Some high-profile WoW forums post come out saying this a few days ago. It's not true. It's what people in my guild call a "Big Gulp."
We had the same problem with OT1 becoming the MT about 2-3 mins in. OT1 is our normal MT for regular encounters. We switched OT1 and MT around, and everything clicked into place. 5/6/5/2 healing too IIRC, still downed him in 6:30 with 18 healers.
So if you have an OT that is consistently surpassing the MT, try switching them around and see if you can do it that way. Patchwerk seems to be an encounter where you really have to "listen" to what is going on to your raid, and adjust accordingly. For instance, most posters seem to have 4 on the MT, and for whatever reason it just wasn't working for us, so we bumped it up to 5 and have an extra healer. So we kill him 15-20 seconds slower or whatever.. which is still far better than losing the MT!
Much thanks to all the tips and ideas in this thread, it was very helpful. I'll add one of my own. If for your first kill you run into the 7:00 enrage, have your rogues evasion ASAP. They can easily let your ranged DPS get another 15 seconds plus of full bore DPS. Could be the difference between a 2% wipe and a kill! (for our first 2% wipe before our first kill, he was at 5% at the hard 7 minute enrage, and we took him down to 2% before fully wiping)
Without a doubt the most satisfying kill so far as a guild. :)
We had some weird problem on Patch last night. I was MT until this happened around 35%: (Patchwerk's hits on me)
Melee
Melee
Melee
Hateful Strike
Melee
Melee
You die.
If I had died from the Hateful Strike I might have lost aggro (though it feels weird with TF, every hit Heroic and Shield Slam on constant cooldown). But I died as MT. It seems almost impossible to me to lose the 10% aggro treshold and getting it back one hit later.
Wouldn't really make sense... Patch would have just chose between the two remaining OT's and the overeager DPS guy and HS'ed one of those three, if it were that simple.
Craziest explanation I can come up with would be that Hateful Strike -does- add threat, and the one that you took pushed you right back into MT position. But then again, how it overcome 10% of 2 minutes worth of aggro would be anybody's guess.
Does your combat log you have a record of what you hit Patchy with in the space between the Hateful Strike and the next melee attack?
Is it possible that a rogue pulled aggro for an instant and then vanished/feinted? Or that you were the only one in melee range for a split second, for whatever reason?
Wouldn't really make sense... Patch would have just chose between the two remaining OT's and the overeager DPS guy and HS'ed one of those three, if it were that simple.
Craziest explanation I can come up with would be that Hateful Strike -does- add threat, and the one that you took pushed you right back into MT position. But then again, how it overcome 10% of 2 minutes worth of aggro would be anybody's guess.
Does your combat log you have a record of what you hit Patchy with in the space between the Hateful Strike and the next melee attack?
i'm fairly sure hateful strike generates a good amount of aggro. if OT3 is getting skipped, using ls/gem so he takes a HS gets him right on this hate list again and usually he won't fall off after that. the problem above seems like an aggro issue. we've had mt+ot1 switching a few times, the swtich back is strange though. but it can easily happen. lets say MT has a few misses, OT1 does WAY too much aggro moves and takes over MT. MT gest a HS and keeps doing moves while OT1 suddenly gets 2-3 misses in a row and MT takes over again.
to prevent MT + OT1 being switched, OT1 should not do ANY aggro moves at all. no heroic strikes, no sunders. just auto attack + shield block. in conjunction with the aggro from taking the most HS, he will NEVER fall of patchys list. OT2 should do medium moves, some sunders, shield block. no worries as long as he frequently takes HS and usualyl he should if theres no really long parry/dodge streak. then he should start going for aggro. OT3 has to fight for it. heroics, sunders etc. if you try to divide the HS equally (we have most of them land on ot1, much less on ot2 and very few on ot3) with 3-4 healers using 2.5s casts each, then the tanks should do aggro moves depending on HS they take. if they don't take some for 10s, start doing aggro as much as they can and be ready to use ls/gem after 20-25s to make sure they don't fall off. as long as they keep taking HS, they should only do a medium amount of aggro moves so they never threaten to overaggro the MT.
i'm fairly sure hateful strike generates a good amount of aggro. if OT3 is getting skipped, using ls/gem so he takes a HS gets him right on this hate list again and usually he won't fall off after that.
Having never seen the issue of OTs getting skipped, I'm curious how this works. If OT3 is getting skipped (which I assume means that rogues or dps wars take HS if higher on hp than OT1 and 2), how will increasing his hp make him take a HS? He already had enough hp to be the "correct" HS target once OT1 and 2 were below 100%, how will more hp make patch more likely to HS him?
I thought the use of gem/ls was just to kick OT3 above OT1 and 2 on hp if he didn't receive early HS's due to parry/dodge/heals, so he wouldn't fall off the list in the first place. I really don't understand why it would bring him back on the list.
Last kill OT3 took a full minute before he got hit by HS, but the order was as we anticipated. As I've said countless times, theres no evidence that HS generates threat, only that threat is required to stay on the HS list - and you can fall off the HS list as OT1 doing nothing, whereas OT3 will not fall off it, taking no hits, but using a lot of low-rage aggro generating abilities. Also aggro pulling from OT to MT is absolute , as is other melee aggro transition. Seems like a regular fight to me, with a threshold for the list.
HS gives you rage for sure - and that is in turn threat, but like I just described, a warrior who can manage his/her rage can deal with not getting hit and still being #3 for a long time. Keep in mind we were going all out for that entire minute. Its a threshold, not a #1-4 situation. That should be obvious by the pull though. He might raise the "threat" of all 4 people on his list by a scalar - which is why OT and MT transition absolutely (any OT), but they would all get the same bonus, and it would be arbitrary. I believe he's a very ordinary boss however, and all these threads are just superflous.
I'm fairly sure that tanks are somehow generating extra threat, otherwise dps would pull aggro at some point i.e. looking at KTM one of our ignite mages passed our MT on KTM yet didn't pull aggro. I don't think that KTM is accounting for threat related to hateful strike..though it is possible he didn't surpass the threat threshold and tanks are just generating a ton of threat because they always have full rage. The logic that tanks 2-4 hit by HS seems to make sense for all our kills so far.
well maybe it's not the HS that generates extra threat at all, maybe the top4 people on his list just get a fixed threat multiplier added to their normal thereat generating abilities is all. This would explain how OT1 can fall off the HS list if he does nothing despite having been HS'd multiple times and how OT3 can stay on the list even if he doesn't get HS'd for extended amount of time at the start. Would probably be simpler to code too I guess since the boss's damage on the tank generating threat would be completely new mechanic.
I do agree that the agro for the fight is not just straight up. Waiting 5 secs and going all out you'd get agro on any fight even when tanks are getting lots of rage. Warrior agro abilities aren't that powerful since they are still limited by GCD regardless of full rage bar.
For alliance groups who are having good success on PW, how exactly are you using your paladins in terms of what spell they are throwing? I've seen some folks say that they are loading up the MT with pallies... is that a common technique, or are other people spreading them around? Are you using FoL 6, or downranking Holy Light with spell cancellation? Thanks for any feedback.
For alliance groups who are having good success on PW, how exactly are you using your paladins in terms of what spell they are throwing? I've seen some folks say that they are loading up the MT with pallies... is that a common technique, or are other people spreading them around? Are you using FoL 6, or downranking Holy Light with spell cancellation? Thanks for any feedback.
We use 4 to 5 paladins on the MT, 1 on OT3, split the druids/priests on OT1/2. Usually 3 paladins spamming FoL6, with one chaining and cancelling max rank HL in case of a spike. Keeping imp. Demo Shout up on Patchwerk helps your MT healers immeasurably, make sure to bug your warriors about it.
It simply makes a spammable button that will fire off the heal of your choice when your designated tank gets HS. With it we were able to assign 3-4 healers to each OT, calculate how large heals they needed, and down Patchwerk after 3 hours of attempts from scratch. It's a "weak" way of learning the encounter, since you leave yourself completely open to whipes due to disconnects and you don't really learn anything, but we only have a few weeks left of the "current" patchwerk anyway.
Our guild has run this mod for all of our Patchwerk kills. It is a wonderful tool for reactive healing strats, but it has been broken since the 2.0 patch. Has anyone else that uses this mod found a fix for it or know the original website that it came from? It doesn't appear that a simple TOC change will make it work.
That mod will never work again. Mods can no longer cast spells for you or perform logic to determine when (or what) spell to cast. You're going to have to relearn how to heal on patchwerk.
We haven't been able to get back to Patchwerk in a few weeks due to attrition and the 2.0 patch wreaking some havoc.
We should be able to get after him this week.
We usually run with 12-13 healers in Naxx. I won't try Patchwerk without 15. We run with the MT/OT1/OT2/OT3 routine and split up healers according to who we have tanking and healing.
Normally we do dr00ds on the MT and OT3 and stack the Priests/Pallys on OT1 and OT2 since they have big heals that are 2.5 seconds.
At any rate - has anybody adjusted their healing strat to take advantage of stackable HoTs?
Perhaps put 1 pally on each tank and make sure every priest/dr00d has a HoT on every tank at all times. Between HoTs heal a tank.
With 10 priests/dr00ds ticking at say, an average of 500 each -> 5000 health/tick.
Stackable dots has been discussed already on these forums afaik - just look around for it, the basic summary is: don't do it.
We killed him same as always, exact same healing strat, with heals that were well below level 40 - and we one shotted him... actually felt easier if anything.
Just use your old strat, and I highly recommend you bring more healers to your raid. Even at 5/5/5/5/5/5etc you'd have 15 healers in a balanced raid - 12-13 is going to hurt.
Encounters weren't designed around 12 healers, and paradoxically, you go faster with more healers. Although, not that strange when you see the slowest part about clearing trash is ressing and recovery. You don't get epeen points either for not bringing healers.
HOTs are a pretty poor way to heal up HS dmg. using hots on the MT = good, on HS tanks, very bad imo. you could conceivably get away with 1-3 healers less if the OT healers just keep HOTs up on the mt and you only have 1 healer chain casting big heals to make up for any spikes.
Downranking didn't change HT 8-11, and the new talents compensate for HT 7 (the 2k+ heal with 900 healing). So Druids at least, lost nothing and gained quite a bit for patchwerk purposes.
GHeal 1+ priests lost nothing
Healing Wave 8+ lost nothing
Holy Light 7+ lost nothing
I see no reason why the patch would change how you do Patchwerk other than loss of addons.
edit: Speaking of, I'm dreading Patchwerk without the use of ZPW. I did enjoy easymode while it lasted :(
Actually I think that Healing Wave rank 6 w/ Healing Way is about the same for me, depending on +healing. I don't think I know -anyone- who uses rank 5, so honestly I haven't noticed any decrease in effectiveness.
Originally Posted by bartolimu
It makes me want to hit Marge Thatcher on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
11/21/06, 11:43 PM
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