Dawme

Seems nice except you can't have 4 ots for hs, fight would be soooo easier with 4 instead of 3 :)

 

Renew

4 MT - Priest, Druidx2 and Paladin
Rest of the healers split between 2 Hateful tanks.

We usually run 16 healers (2 of them feral - don't ask).

Confidence is not Arrogance.

 

◊ Praetorian

Yeah, the "3 HS tank" thing is not a function of people's strats. He will not pay attention to more than 3 people at once. One of the first things we did when learning Patch was to have like five tanks, all buffed to survive HS, go in with a rule of "no healing anyone, except the MT", and we watched the order he hit people in. It ended up being 1, 2, 3, 1(dead), 4, 5, 2(dead), 3(dead), 4(dead), 5(dead).

We used to use something like 4/4/3/5 or 5/4/3/5 when possible, for OT1/OT2/OT3/MT. Our first few kills worked like that. Since then, we've switched to 5/5/1/4, 5/5/1/5, or 6/5/1/5, depending on how many healers we have. It feels more stable.

 

berg

Well it is interesting that there is no clear winner. This is one of those fights where going back and trying a new way sounds really unpleasant so I doubt we will ever change. Having only one OT sounds terrifying to me but I guess people make it work.

If OP is just starting the one good piece of advice I can give is just go to combat log and disable everything except for enemy spells on X. Then you will only see the hateful strikes and you can get your rhythm down. The combat log is a relatively instant update where ctraid frames have a significant lag in updating health bars. This is more meaningful in a 2-3 OT scenario where you actually have time to think though.

 

Masq

I suggest doing it this way, if you ahve 4 warriors capable of tanking.

1 MT - Druids + Left over shaman.

OT #1 - Your Best Healers , 2priest + 1 shaman (best geared)
OT #2 - 2 priest + 1 shaman (average geared)
OT #3 - 2priest + 1 shaman (wrost geared)

*PLEASE NOTE, SHAMAN DROPPING TOTEMS THAT ARE OFFTANK HEALING IS EXTREMELY RISKY. IF NO DODGE/PARRY/MISSES happen your offtank will die. It's best to not use totems if you're offtank healing, yes I know its a pain. However we have killed patchwerk without windfury before, so it can be done.

Hateful strike happens every 1.2 second, so using a 3 offtank rotation, you can effectively cast greater heal, and healing wave (2.5s talented) on your offtank after they are hit. Using this method, you can use reactive healing (instead of spamming heals, you can start your cast after your tank is hit), this gives you a 1.1s reaction time. I'm assuming most of your healers have that, right?


Also, setup your offtank group with 1 warlock (Improved Imp + Admirals Hat) + Shaman for Grace of Air (avoidance) and the 3 OT warriors.

If your shaman are all resto, group swap them into the priest healing group for mana tide rotations. This should keep your priests going strong with minor consumables (oil/nightfin)


EDIT: Also, your healers need to be aware if an offtank dies, they have to pick it up, and use faster healers.

http://www.aftermathlb.com

 

berg

In a 3 HS Tank rotation Shaman can drop a totem completely safely if they have NS up. Otherwise, it is risky for sure.

Risk with totems is one of the drawbacks of the 3 HS system as opposed to the more spammy healing involved in the 1-2HS systems.

 

◊ Praetorian

You seriously use a purely reactive healing strat? In our experience, though it works on paper ("3.6 sec window, 2.5 sec heal, easy! Patchwerk should be cake!") in reality your tanks all die within 30 seconds. Maybe our healers all have unacceptably high pings or unacceptably slow synaptic response, but I am skeptical.

 

Shik

I'm surprised more people don't use the 8/8 Prop spamming rank1 poh on the offtanks strat that Elendril talked about LA using. The uptime on inspiration should be quite decent, and the mitigation clearly outpaces a shaman totem.

Do you just find you can keep high uptime on the armor procs anyway?

 

◊ Praetorian

If you are Horde, every shaman has Ancestral Fortitude because there's nothing that comes close in that tier of the Resto tree. I'd say Inspiration/Ancestral are up almost all the time as a result.

 

Argrax

Quick derail, do you not find both tier 1 talents in resto to be worth having?

 

◊ Praetorian

I think most people do something like 5/5 Imp HW, 3/3 Ancestral, 2/5 Tidal Focus. As a 3pt talent, Ancestral is too good to pass up, in my view.

 

◊ Quigon

Ancestral provides more to the tank than any other single talent you have when it actually lands.

 

Morfina

You use 1 healer for OT3 ? I'm guessing he gets healed up over quite a while, then? As soon as he gets pushed over 5-6k hp, he's now in risk of being HSed - Is that even stable?

 

Dawme

I don't understand why everyone says "you must heal in one round after a hs because if ot is healed to 6k hp he's in risk of eating HS".
If your ot3 is healed to 6k hp AND takes HS, that means ot1 and 2 are below 6k hp. So even if ot3 would not have been healed, one of your ot is going to die anyways. Fact is, you need one warrior above 8k hp every 1.2 sec, the fact that the 2 others are at 1 hp or 5k or 7k doesn't matter.

 

Cordelia

Sorry to bump this from a different page, but I figured I'd post here instead of starting a new topic.

We just started Patchwerk tonight. My question is which rank heals are druids and priests using to be an OT healer.
For the first few attempts we threw efficiency out the window and just healed to see if our tanks could take it. It was fine. We had the MT with 4 healers on him. Main OT with 6 healers and OT2 with 5. And I think 2 for the backup guy. By throwing efficiency out the window, the three priests that were on the main OT (me and two others) staggered Rank 5 Greater heal at .5 second intervals. Basically you see the first person start, then you, then the third. And from there just keep them streaming in. We were able to last until the MT died and the main OT became the mt. That seems more like the MT healer problem since the OT was kept alive, albeit by streaking greater heal 5's. We ran out of mana... quick ;) So we're looking to tweak the strategy.

Druids said they were using rank 11 HT's. I'm curious as to which rank heals healers are using on this fight, considering its not a short fight.

 

Boevis

Our first PW kill had 1 MT, 3 OT each with 4 healers (5 druid, 5 priest, 6 shaman I believe) Due to the nature of HS, we found that precasting and trying to cancel resulted in sporatic burst healing that resulted in OT deaths when all 3 were below 9k, or resulted in all healers going OOM too fast from chaincasting with fear of canceling. 3 OT's has the nice advantage of letting their healers do reactive healing. OT Takes HS, healers immediately start casting.
:00:0 - OT 1 takes a HS
:00:5 - OT 1 Healers begin casting
:01:2 - OT 2 takes a HS
:01:7 - OT 2 Healers begin casting
:02:4 - OT 3 takes a HS
:02:9 - OT 3 Healers begin casting
:03:0 - OT 1 Healed to full
:03:6 - OT 1 takes a HS
:04:1 - OT 1 Healers begin casting
:04:2 - OT 2 Healed to full
:04:8 - OT 2 takes a HS
:05:3 - OT 2 Healers begin casting
:05:4 - OT 3 Healed to full
:06:0 - OT 3 takes a HS
:06:5 - OT 3 Healers begin casting
repeat.

This is with 2.5 sec casts, 3 sec works as well for druids (they have to begin casting before .5 sec pass or their heal won't land in time though) All 4 of the tanks healers set their heals for just over 2k before Amplify, guaranteeing that a tank will be healed to full no matter what. However many healers you use, have them test their heals before-hand to make sure they total to always be more than the max damage that tank can take from a HS should be ~9k. Heal ranks varried between healers due to gear differences, Druids varried from rank 9 (MP5 gear collecters) to 6 (+healing) Priests were using either Greater Heal 1 or 2, and Shaman were using Healing Wave 8 or 9.

Innervates were macro'd to cast on the MT healers, as parries ensured we didn't have to chain cast (those of us on OT 3 ended the fight at over 60% mana, having never drank potions, except myself who ended with 90% mana left having recieved mana spring/mana tide for some reason ... ) Being on OT 3 meant that I could easilly keep FF on Patchwerk. I'd suggest putting (if Horde) 3 of your Shamans that are in Melee/Hunter groups on OT 3 so they can better keep totems down and 1 druid so he can keep up FF and sometimes HoT the MT, Shamans on OT 1 will never be able to drop totems unless they NS or use a high rank LHW out of fear of missing their cast window.

 

majk

We tried spreading HS evenly over 3 tanks by assigning an equal amount of healers to each of the 3. This didnt work at all for us and we changed to heaping all the caster on one OT (10 healers) and 2 healers on the other 2 OTs. Think we then beat it the following day or something like that and have beat it the following weeks after the initial kill with little problem using this healing strat.

 

• Playered

Sorry to revive an old(ish) thread, but if I started a new one there would be 'l2search n00b' etc ^^

We're finally getting tanks ready to actually consider doing this boss... which opens up our second wing to start clearning potentially.

Now for us our healers overall... arent that great, our paladins are amazing, and we have 2 very good druids, and about 2-3 priests who are also really quite good...
But from what I've heard paladins are generally ment to be kept on the MT... and also as alliance you need to keep enough priests on the tanks to keep inspiration.

On a good day we run about 3-4 druids and recently.. 7-9 priests (only 2-3 good ones), aswell as 6 paladins.
So on average 17 (although awhile ago we ran really heavy dps raids with 11-13 healers max)
I honestly dont think we could do a 3 OT setup with the lack of 'decent' healers we have, especially if you need to setup the healing with precise timing and such.

So anyway.. I really want to try and find the best way to provide them with the ability to do this...
Is it better to try and start with 3 OT's and pray that they wake up? or use 2 OTs and hope that the good healers can continue their job of pulling the weight and making up for the lesser abled ones?

And healing strategies... aside from Boevis' post (which I've informed some of the better healers about), are there any other types of information that provides healers with the knowledge of how to heal correctly for Patch?

Are there any kind of easy ways to practise the healing outside of Naxx (Like we have extended Ebonroc fights for a 7min duration to test our DPS in an almost replica fight) as the cost of using titans and repairs and mana-endurance potions and soo many stoneshield potions to learn this (which imo will take quite some time) seems abit too high in my opinion...

 

Zwink

As alliance the most important thing you can do to keep your Hateful Strike Tank(s) up is keep the 30% armor Lay on Hands buff up at all times. Also make sure every single one of your priests is specced into Inspiration (and the more points in Holy Specialization the better). To this day we still use a single Hateful Strike Tank. I'd reccomend it to anyone that could stack there raid with healers and wants to go all out with buffs. We've done it with as few as 14 healers (4 on the mt and 10 on the ot), but just adding more healers makes this become so much easier. We've found that dps is not an issue on Patchwerk and we have brought as many as 17 healers to it. You will want your best geared warrior eating Hateful if you single tank it. Make sure both warriors are specced for Toughness. Tanks should also be popping stoneshield potions. If your server is stable you may even consider DM buffing your warriors along with Zandalar, Zanza, Flask, Food, and Fort pots. Also the Darkmoon Faire should be coming soon, I think. Get the 10% armor buff for your warriors and the fight gets easier and easier.

http://vodka-guild.com

 

CrazyCarl

I've been giving this a little thought as well. We were clearing some trash tonight in the Abomb wing to get some people their Tier 3 thingies and we decided after we finished to let Patch beat the crap out of us. So after that we were talking a bit about healing and what I've heard so far is that you want a heal that will be at ~2,000 to be your primary heal. I can manage that at GH2, but I can only chain cast that for about a minute (Though I haven't tried it with full raid buffs and consumables) and I'm afraid it will be a waste. I'm not too concerned about people going OOM as with the right buffs and not being a wimp with consumables it doesn't seem likely that anyone would OOM, but the timing and strength of the heals seems like it will be the problem.

 

Romp

we just changed from 6-5-1 on OT's to 5-4-3 and it seemed to work a lot better for us. Solved the problem of the 3rd OT taking almost no HS's and dropping off the HS list. Also we used reactive healing on the 3rd OT so it wasn't nearly as mana intensive for those 3 healers which means we could get away with a few undergeared healers (or enhancement shamans etc :P)

Any horde guilds tried using chain heal? I was healing the MT and expiremented with using chain heal, often got 2 bounced, always 1 and you have a good chance of proccing ancestral fortitude on at least 1 target every cast.

 

Cordelia

Hmm.. Wipefest tonight for us.

We had:
OT1 - 1 Priest, 2 Druids, 2 Paladins
OT2 - 2 Priests, 1 Druid, 1 Paladin
MT - 2 Priests, 1 Druid, 1 Paladin
And a Druid and Priest that left early/came late.

At first glance, I'm thinking we didn't have enough healing. Usually we have heavy healing which makes certain things difficult, like learning C'thun.
The DPS looks fine. The farthest we got Patchwerk tonight was 70% in 1min30sec before tanks died. The problem for this fight is obviously the healing.

The tanks are as follows:

OT 1: Human Warrior in 8/8 Wrath, Spineshatterer and the shield from armaments.
OT 2: Feral Druid at the 75% armor cap with well over 11000 health buffed.
MT: Warrior in bits and peices of wrath. (hence the extra healing on him)

So.. we have the MT as the least "geared" of the tanks. And the two with most mitigation as the OTs. I'm not very good with math and theory craft. But as the only priest healing the warrior OT, which rank spell do you suggest I be using. For our "tank group" we had:
Me (Priest) - Greater Heal 1 - 2.5 cast for around 1800hp with added 8/8 hot for around 314 mana I think.
Paladin 1 - Holy Light 6 - 2.5 cast
Paladin 2 - Flash of Light highest rank - 1.4 cast (with zg bonus)
Druid 1 - HT Rank 6 - 3.0 second heal
Druid 2 - HT Rank 7 - 3.0 second cast

(Take note none of these healers besides myself has 8/8 Tier 2 even, let alone Tier 3 or equivelent. Healers have the worst luck with drops.) We've currently killed Anub'rekhan, Noth, Faerlina, and Razuvious in Naxxramas. I'm also assuming that we just may have come to the brickwall gear check known as patchwerk... I just hope a good healing strategy will be able to surpass any problems we may have.

 

dojke

Your strategy seems totally unoptimized.

1) Your first OT is going to get hit with the most HS. Because of this, you want inspiration up on him all the time. Having 1 priest assigned to him casting gheal will not do it. Either add multiple priests on OT1, use flashes, or use a pohr1 group.

2) Druid tanks are simply worse than warriors. Unless there's a really really good reason on why you need to use a druid tank, you simply need to give up on that idea.

3) 8/8 gheal bonus does not work well in an OT1 situation, due to the way healing works. However it does work well on the mt.

 

Cordelia

To clarify. I'm using GH1 for a good size heal that's pretty mana efficient. And I'm asking for opinions on a better heal to use, not simply saying "that wont work".

The Druid takes less damage from a HS than the warrior. Don't be so close minded. In fact I think this is the least of the worries. 75% armor mitigation without inspiration is the hardcap and blows warriors out of the water in terms of "mitigation". Though his dodge is less and he can't parry.

And good point on wanting more priests on the warrior. Inspiration won't help at all on the druid tank since he's at the cap without it, but it can help with the warrior. And using flash heal spam is terribly inneficient especially on such a long fight. I'd be going out of mana rather quickly than if I timed a Greater Heal or a Heal 2 or 4 or something correctly. Just looking as to which ranks other priests are using.

 

Infenwe

Sorry. A druid's mitigation *is* lower than that of a good warrior. Yes, those HS that land will hit for less, but he'll take many more and in the end that costs you a lot of healer mana.

What we ended up doing instead was to plan ahead. You know the worst case scenario with 3 Warrior OTs: No HSes dodged, parried or blocked at all, all hitting for max damage and no +armor proc up. Choose ranks of heals accordingly.

We do it with 3 Warrior OTs and 5/4/2 healers with the rest on the MT. If the first OT has for example 70% reduction from armor, you are looking at 30.000 * 0.9 * 0.7 = 8100 max damage from a HS. His 5 healers have to heal that up in 3.6 seconds, which realistically means they have to heal it in one healing spell each. What you do then is that your order your healers to choose a rank that has enough HPS and if they don't have the mana to keep that up, then they are not using enough pots or they just have too shitty gear to be there. Really simple to be honest. Keeping an eye on Target of Target's Target is also important - when you see Patch targetting the tank before your tank in the rotation, start casting a heal. You will be surprised to see how often it will land just after he smashes your tank with a 7k HS and that just makes you feel great :)

For me, I heal with rank 1 Greater Heal and 964 +healing (Full Transcendence, C'thun mace, Huhu offhand - pretty much best possible priest gear pre-naxx) and with Amplify Magic on that's over 2000 healed in 2.5 seconds making up for someone else having to use a lower hps heal because their gear is not as good (or they are a druid so their main healing spell is HT4 because of its 2.5s cast time post talents).