Bigwigs (please dont derail into RDX6)

Flubber · 08/30/06, 5:47 PM

Hi everyone,
I'm just wondering what everyone's (those who have used it) opinion is on Bigwigs. http://www.wowinterface.com/download...6-BigWigs.html

I've fallen in love with it, as far pre-packaged boss mods go and coming from RAbossmods, I feel it is the best. It has a little bit of eye-candy, but it still runs flawlessly, and so far the timers seem perfect (exception being an early Maexxna call which was fixed with a reset of the plugin). I'm just wondering if anyone that has used it has found any glaring faults or inconsistencies. Its updated frequently and has an SVN that is updated hourly, so I know it has alot of care going into it. I just wonder if everything is smooth for other people.

Unfortunately, I dont have the skills or time to code my own mods, so that option doesnt really exist.

Thanks for your thoughts. BTW, I think I was first made aware of this by Malan, so I know at least one of you use this!

◊ Kalman · 08/30/06, 5:52 PM

I'm a fan - the only problem I've run across with it is that if the rest of your raid isn't using it/broadcasting sync events, it can miss some events. However, someone in the UI thread suggested that upping the combatlog range mitigates the issue, so I'll have to try that.

Generally, though, it seems well-coded and well-supported, with minimal resource utilization. I've been happy with it since I first switched to it, even more so now that I've dropped the rest of ctRA.

Uthalin · 08/30/06, 6:06 PM

There are a couple mods out there right now that provide a preatty good boss mod package (as long as you don't require "cutting edge" mods). The one thing you need to do to increase accursasy substantially is all use the same package so that syncing can work well enough.

Malan · 08/30/06, 6:09 PM

I've managed to get nearly my entire raid converted over to it. As you mentioned, some people in my guild had also been complaining that timers were off for some abilities (disruptive shout last night was a bit off on Raz for some), I'm going to test out the combat log distance tonight. I also read from someone that the syncing is not turned on by default, going to look into that. Otherwise, 100 times better than CTRA.

xyruul · 08/30/06, 6:15 PM

I've used acetimer for a very long timer to display timer bars for any debuffs that I apply. As such I've gotten used to the timer bars and it's far more efficient for me to see timer bars for all boss abilities then it is to sort through various lines of ALL CAPS, stupidly written text all over my screen. *****TENTACLE RAPE PARTY IN 5s****** spammed on 3 parts of my screen for instance actually does very little toward heightening my awareness since I learn to block it all out. The built in ability to block out all raid warnings in bigwigs plus the scaleable bars and efficient usage of memory makes it by far the best timers mod in my opinion.
My UI is a far more enjoyable thing to look at during a boss fight now, and really, it's all about the pretty UIs nowadays.

• Thrillho · 08/30/06, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by Kalman

I'm a fan - the only problem I've run across with it is that if the rest of your raid isn't using it/broadcasting sync events, it can miss some events. However, someone in the UI thread suggested that upping the combatlog range mitigates the issue, so I'll have to try that.

How do you do this? And is there a maximum range for it? I didn't realize combatlog range was something you could control client-side.

Bibdy · 08/30/06, 6:20 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

I've managed to get nearly my entire raid converted over to it. As you mentioned, some people in my guild had also been complaining that timers were off for some abilities (disruptive shout last night was a bit off on Raz for some), I'm going to test out the combat log distance tonight. I also read from someone that the syncing is not turned on by default, going to look into that. Otherwise, 100 times better than CTRA.

That stupid Disrupting Shout timer on BigWigs is ALWAYS off. Even when I stood on the other side with the healers (and within combat log range of Raz). I went from trusting the timer and dying every damned time before the 3rd shout to listening to Vhaelynn on vent and never dying once.

Malorum · 08/30/06, 6:20 PM

I love Bigwigs. Practically my entire guild uses it and its the best boss mod out there IMO.

◊ Praetorian · 08/30/06, 6:24 PM

This isn't about Bigwigs, BUT it also isn't about RDX6, so I'll venture it.

I haven't tried Bigwigs, but has anyone else noticed that the new Natur ECB (v5.0 and up) is all you need in the way of boss mods for 2/3 of the fights in Naxx? It's awesome.

Flubber · 08/30/06, 6:28 PM

I too managed to get my raid converted to it for the most part.

I'm starting to wonder if the timers being off is caused by someone running both Bigwigs and RAbossmods. Every single time I've noticed an issue is when the first person to aggro the target has CTRAbossmods installed, which makes me wonder if CT's modules trigger bigwigs, where as bigwigs uses a different trigger than CT which sets it off to a different time.

After having the pullers and tank switch to it, we didnt notice an issue until a warrior in pug-MC pulled Mag. After the first Tranq is was working perfect, but that first one was announced 5 seconds early.

I'm just wondering if that might be the root, and the disorganized Ace thread makes it tough to find anything.

Foghorn Deadhorn · 08/30/06, 6:35 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

This isn't about Bigwigs, BUT it also isn't about RDX6, so I'll venture it.

I haven't tried Bigwigs, but has anyone else noticed that the new Natur ECB (v5.0 and up) is all you need in the way of boss mods for 2/3 of the fights in Naxx? It's awesome.

We haven't been far in Naxx but I have noticed that Natur replaces the need for BW if the people who have it installed know how to use it. Or so it seems.

As for Bigwigs, we've found the timers to be terribly unreliable in a number of situations, encountered bugginess, etc. We've been really trying because I liked the concept but it hasn't been working well.

For those who have had it running nicely, including in Naxx, any tips on what might be going wrong?

Harem · 08/30/06, 6:47 PM

I've been using BigWigs for about a month now, and I find it to be really accurate. It tends to trigger off of events and such, and can resync itself back up to stuff thats going on. I was actually on top of the DMs (for ranged anyway) on Raz for our first few kills cause I was able to stay in a bit longer than just guessing times. I've only ever died once to shout, and thats due to me half falling asleep when we spent 3 hours on him because our normal priests were missing (If you're in my guild don't kill me <3) Make sure you have the latest version at http://svn.wowace.com/files . It's got a nice version check built in so you know whos slacking (older version sync differently).

Brando · 08/30/06, 6:48 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

This isn't about Bigwigs, BUT it also isn't about RDX6, so I'll venture it.

I haven't tried Bigwigs, but has anyone else noticed that the new Natur ECB (v5.0 and up) is all you need in the way of boss mods for 2/3 of the fights in Naxx? It's awesome.

Isn't that just because it's picking up the raid warnings from CT_RAbossmods though?? I don't think you could just run NECB by itself without being in a sync channel with boss mod warnings and have it work in the fashion you are describing. Would be pretty nice if I'm wrong though and that's the case as I hate RAbossmods spam.

Whiteknight · 08/30/06, 7:16 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

I haven't tried Bigwigs, but has anyone else noticed that the new Natur ECB (v5.0 and up) is all you need in the way of boss mods for 2/3 of the fights in Naxx? It's awesome.

I was introduced to NECB through the 'that one special mod' thread on your boards, and I'd be hard pressed to point at anything else that's improved my game as much as this mod. For just sheer awareness of what's about to happen in the vast majority of fights, it's fantastic.
Even just the presentation - a countdown bar is vastly more efficient as a way of conveying information than a sound-cue and a bunch of spammed text on the screen 5 seconds before the event happens.

On topic, a couple of our guild have bigwigs installed and broadcast the warnings to the raid for various boss fights. As far as it goes, I think the warnings are pretty useful and I think I'll install it myself.

Malan · 08/30/06, 7:20 PM

Yes, NECB cues off of CTRA warnings.
I'm not certain that BigWigs does, although thats an intersting note to follow up on. I'll dig into it and see what I can find.

Also - the combat msg range is in the minimap button's menu. Its not really extending the range of the combat log though, I think it has to do with events being fired in the WoW API. (The stuff like UNIT_REGEN_DISABLED that signals combat begins, things like that)

Dakous · 08/30/06, 7:22 PM

I'm no longer in a progression raid guild, and for what we deal with, BigWigs is phenomenal. Not every raidgroup finds the 45 second warning on Hakkar's Life Drain best - well, that's fine, get the puller BigWigs and they can use 53 seconds or 58 seconds or 73 seconds (and they can adjust on the fly, instead of me having to go fiddle with their luas because search and replace to some people is search and destroy) - whatever number pleases their little heart. The timers are always there, they're not obnoxious, they're not wallflowers.

I always found the Twin Emps fight stressful (I'm a rogue, playing frogger where one wrong move of mine = wipe, = QQ), and requiring a bit more concentration than any other fight. I hated unnecessary chatter on Vent for that fight, and I hated the guy calling out time. "Seven minutes remaining... looking good guys, looking good." Since I stopped raiding AQ40 before discovering BigWigs, I'll never know if that would be a big warm mug of SHUT UP for That Guy, but I can always hope, since Hakkar's wipe out is a constantly visible bar. (By the way, I'm not criticizing That Guy, or his utility)

Malan · 08/30/06, 7:24 PM

Unfortunately you still always seem to have "That Other Guy" who says things like "yah I have Bigwigs or CTBossMods, but I'm just too darn busy in the fight to really look at them" and thus, someone will always be calling out times and cues over vent. :(

Edit - shit, it looks like it may very well be taking some sync messages from CTRA, which would be a damn good indicator of why some timers are goofed. Also read a post saying that the Raz fight appears to set the first timer for Disruptive Shout based on someone taking damage from it, since there is no combat message for it? A suggestion in the wowace forum was to place an imp or VW in LoS for the first shout.

Zyrxil · 08/30/06, 7:40 PM

I started using BigWigs a few weeks ago. The presentation is a huge part of why I like it, along with the BossBlock spam killing, and the ease of updating it through SVN builds. However, BigWigs' timer always seems to lag 1 second behind NECB's timer for the same event, and that's a big cause for concern.

Recently, I also heard of a bossmod called La Vendetta, which seems aimed at being easily updatable, with independent modules for all encounters. Has anyone ever tried that out?

◊ Praetorian · 08/30/06, 7:40 PM

Err, I am fairly sure NECB v5.0 is completely standalone.

Excerpts from the .lua's:

	CEnemyCastBar_HEIGAN_YELL1 = "I see you...";
	CEnemyCastBar_HEIGAN_YELL2 = "You are mine now.";
	CEnemyCastBar_HEIGAN_YELL3 = "You... are next.";
	CEnemyCastBar_HEIGAN_TELEPORT_YELL = "The end is upon you.";

	CEnemyCastBar_FAER_YELL1 = "Kneel before me, worm!";
	CEnemyCastBar_FAER_YELL2 = "You cannot hide from me!";
	CEnemyCastBar_FAER_YELL3 = "Run while you still can!";
	CEnemyCastBar_FAER_YELL4 = "Slay them in the master's name!"; 

	CEnemyCastBar_PATCHWERK_NAME			= "Patchwerk";

	CEnemyCastBar_GOTHIK_YELL			= "Foolishly you have sought your own demise.";

	CEnemyCastBar_ANUB_YELL1			= "Just a little taste...";
	CEnemyCastBar_ANUB_YELL2			= "Yes, run! It makes the blood pump faster!";
	CEnemyCastBar_ANUB_YELL3			= "There is no way out.";

-- Anub'Rekhan
			["First Locust Swarm"] = {t=90, c="cooldown", icontex="Spell_Nature_InsectSwarm"};
			["Locust Swarm"] = {t=23, i=3, c="gains", aBar="Locust Swarm CD", active="true", icontex="Spell_Nature_InsectSwarm"};
			["Locust Swarm CD"] = {t=70, c="cooldown", icontex="Spell_Nature_InsectSwarm"};

			-- Patchwerk
			["Enraged Mode"] = {t=420, c="cooldown", icontex="Spell_Shadow_UnholyFrenzy"}; -- don't translate, used internally!

			-- Razuvious
			["Disrupting Shout"] = {t=25, c="cooldown", active="true", icontex="Ability_Creature_Disease_02"};

			-- Gluth
			["Terrifying Roar"] = {t=20.0, c="cooldown", m="Gluth", icontex="Ability_Devour"}; -- Gluth Fears every 20seconds
			["Decimate"] = {t=105, c="cooldown", active="true", icontex="Ability_Creature_Disease_02"};

			-- Maexxna
			["Web Spray"] = {t=40, c="cooldown", pBar="Mini Spiders", m="Maexxna", aZone="Naxxramas", icontex="Ability_Ensnare"};
			["Mini Spiders"] = {t=30, c="cooldown", pBar="Web Wrap CD", icontex="INV_Misc_MonsterSpiderCarapace_01"};
			["Web Wrap CD"] = {t=20, c="cooldown", icontex="Spell_Nature_Web"};

And so forth. It's all built-in.

Dakous · 08/30/06, 8:01 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Unfortunately you still always seem to have "That Other Guy" who says things like "yah I have Bigwigs or CTBossMods, but I'm just too darn busy in the fight to really look at them" and thus, someone will always be calling out times and cues over vent. :(

One of the luxuries of now being a guildmaster is that no, That Guy will most assuredly not be calling times over vent. There's simply no excuse now. As for cues, that's something else entirely. "Everyone be ready, banishes are coming up ten seconds!" To my mind, those are two wholly different things - one is merely morbid curiosity and serves no purpose (were "you" slacking but since we're behind on time you're going to not suck for the next minute ro two to put us back on track? Yeah, TTTTTHanks), the other is a matter of wiping the raid.

CT doesn't provide a constant state of information - merely fixed warning flashpoints.
BigWigs does - at no point can you not glance at the number and find out. If you are too busy to look at them, you're too busy to know how long we have left, IMO.

And yes, I'm aware of the principle of pushing risks to try and get back on schedule but playing it safe otherwise. I'm of the opinion one person - a raid officer - can make that determination for the raid, precluding That Guy from silencing the 50 requests for "Are we on pace? How are we on time? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?"

Brando · 08/30/06, 8:22 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Err, I am fairly sure NECB v5.0 is completely standalone.

stuff

Excerpts from the .lua's:

And so forth. It's all built-in.

Odd, my NECB must be older than v5.0 as I never have recieved any timers other than the RDX5 ones for either Raz or Anub. Nice find Gurg :-)

Malan · 08/30/06, 8:29 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Err, I am fairly sure NECB v5.0 is completely standalone.

* NECB uses the new command 'SendAddonMessage(prefix, text, "PARTY"|"RAID"|"GUILD")'
+ No CTRA Broadcast needed anymore, the clients will communicate instantly through the new AddOn Channel!
+ Version checks will be possible anytime now (not only after CTRA Broadcasts anymore) and versions will always be regathered on demand!

It used to, looks like the latest changed it.

Edit - yah went through the changelogs. NECB was using the CTRA channels for some things, then they updated it for 1.12 and removed all that code.

Brando · 08/30/06, 8:36 PM

Hmm, has it been pretty accurate in your experience Gurg?? Looks like you have to be at least targetting the boss for it to work properly.

◊ Praetorian · 08/30/06, 8:41 PM

Originally Posted by Brando

Hmm, has it been pretty accurate in your experience Gurg?? Looks like you have to be at least targetting the boss for it to work properly.

Sorry for the derail.... But yeah, it's quite accurate. Some things work off of boss yells, so nothing more is required. A couple require a bit more. Maexxna, for example, requires that someone with NECB has Maexxna targetted when she is engaged. That's not really too much to ask. The Maexxna one is great as well, as it gives you countdown bars for people who are Web Wrapped, and you can click the bars to target the Wrapped players. It's really excellent.

Degorn · 08/31/06, 5:01 AM

Being an early adopter my BigWigs experience was kind of horrible. Having to distribute svn snapshots daily and tracking who had a wrong version that was sending sync messages when it shouldn't (i.e. sync messages resetting the maexxna timer, argh) was something that I wouldn't like to repeat. People got fed up and stopped using it, (this was around the time when RDX5 got leaked) which screwed up syncing for the ones that were left.
Now we're using the mature, Ace2 (yay no dependencies), version-checking BigWigs again, no complaints so far. Some of the plugins are really great too.