Amplify Magic worth or not - Page 2

Maklar · 09/01/06, 4:00 PM

Originally Posted by Quigon

Originally Posted by Beldur

We buff the mind controlled adds at Razuvious with Amplify Magic

I heard you should do that to razorgore also right before the last egg is broken...

I know the adds lose it when MC breaks. Not sure if Razor would or not.

Boevis · 09/01/06, 4:05 PM

Originally Posted by enshula

Boevis i prefer to think of it as healing wave would be getting 120% of the bonus. Since everything is relative to the 3.5 second time frame.

Paladins benefit involves downranking heals and spamming flash of light throughout an entire fight. From there you can decide to save mana for bursts or uprank a bit.

For a druid to get the equivelant benefit would involve cycling targets with rank 4 rejuvenation. You cast rejuvenation on 8 targets getting 225 extra healing on each one. Which is:

8 * 225 / 12 = 150 healing per second

The equivelant of +350 healing for a paladin btw but spread through 8 targets.

That works out (without looking up all druid specs) to roughly 933 HPS at 70 MPS for a raiding druid.

By comparison a paladin would be doing about 600 HPS at same MPS and gearing level.

Typically though on fights with a large amount of aoe damage the damage is magical negating the benefit.

(Gheal2 spamming priests would also get a significant benefit, the important thing is what proportion of your time you spend casting)

I don't have a clue what you're saying here, 120% Bonus? And I'm just as capable of downranking heals and spamming them so I can have the mana for a NS heal if needed ... that's exactly what I do in fact.

Paladin with +500 healing casts Holy Light Rank 4 (347-399 after talents, 190 mana, 2.5 cast) on a target with Amp Magic (+150) and BoL Paladin heals target for 1050*2.5/3.5 = 750 + 347-399 = 1097-1149. 449 HPS, 5.9 HPM
Paladin with +500 healing casts Flash of Light rank 6 (384-429, 140 mana, 1.5 cast) 765*1.5/3.5 = 328 + 384-429 = 712-757. 489 HPS, 5.2 HPM
Druid with +500 healing casts Healing Touch Rank 4 (414-505 after talents, 150 mana, 2.5 cast) on a target with Amp Magic (+150) Druid heals target for 650*3/3.5 = 557 + 414-505 = 971-1062. 406 HPS, 6.8 HPM
Druid using Rank 6 HT (838-1006, 271 mana, 3 cast) 650 + 838-1006 = 1488-1656. 524 HPS, 5.8 HPM.

Omentuva · 09/01/06, 4:13 PM

Originally Posted by Maklar

Originally Posted by Quigon

Originally Posted by Beldur

We buff the mind controlled adds at Razuvious with Amplify Magic

I heard you should do that to razorgore also right before the last egg is broken...

I know the adds lose it when MC breaks. Not sure if Razor would or not.

Not sure either. I'd think not, but we all know how lovely some abilities are. I personally tend to use it at fights like Sartura, Ebonroc and Broodlord. (Though it does make the MS - BW combo a bit more deadlier, so that might not be a good idea if you're on the edge of just about killing.). Dampen gets used on Vael when in a non-Holy Nova group. (Which works absolute miracles IMO.), Firemaw and Chrom nowadays as well. (Because I don't have a anti-"oh shit, Bronze and breath inc in 2"-button anymore, so any bit of HP helps.)

Does anyone know how it affects Huhuran's Poison Volley spamming post 30 %? Rather said, what bonus does it get? Since it is a ~ 5 minute fight, one could put it on certain meat shields and have more risk but also more healing. I'd imagine it would not be put on the MT/OT because of Acid Spit and the way blizz designes mob 'DoT's'. (I.E. full bonus substracted/added with Dampen/Amp respectively.), but it might be interesting for others.

Vernichter · 09/01/06, 4:21 PM

How do amplify magic/dampen magic affect healing stream totem?

Jaizha · 09/01/06, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by Maklar

Originally Posted by Quigon

Originally Posted by Beldur

We buff the mind controlled adds at Razuvious with Amplify Magic

I heard you should do that to razorgore also right before the last egg is broken...

I know the adds lose it when MC breaks. Not sure if Razor would or not.

I have a feeling Razorgore did lose it the one time I decided to test that out, although as I can't recall whether I also put a Detect Magic on him, it might just be that I couldn't see the buff after he turned hostile.

Bibdy · 09/01/06, 4:44 PM

Seeing as how he resets health and everything, I imagine it removes all buffs/debuffs from him, too.

Soul · 09/01/06, 4:45 PM

Originally Posted by Bibdy

Seeing as how he resets health and everything, I imagine it removes all buffs/debuffs from him, too.

It does now. It didn't use to, IIRC.

RootBreaker · 09/01/06, 4:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jaizha

Originally Posted by Maklar

Originally Posted by Quigon

I heard you should do that to razorgore also right before the last egg is broken...

I know the adds lose it when MC breaks. Not sure if Razor would or not.

I have a feeling Razorgore did lose it the one time I decided to test that out, although as I can't recall whether I also put a Detect Magic on him, it might just be that I couldn't see the buff after he turned hostile.

We threw a detect magic on him last week after the eggs were down. Amp magic was still up.

Quigon · 09/01/06, 4:53 PM

I'm gonna go with what Soul said. But the previous poster is awfully convincing!

Boevis · 09/01/06, 5:57 PM

Originally Posted by Vernichter

How do amplify magic/dampen magic affect healing stream totem?

Exactly as if you were wearing that much more +healing, except on that target only.

Nurru · 09/01/06, 6:04 PM

Last week someone gave Razor MotW while he was being controlled. After the MC broke he definitely still had the buff.

ipcv · 09/01/06, 8:34 PM

Originally Posted by Maklar

Originally Posted by Quigon

Originally Posted by Beldur

We buff the mind controlled adds at Razuvious with Amplify Magic

I heard you should do that to razorgore also right before the last egg is broken...

I know the adds lose it when MC breaks. Not sure if Razor would or not.

Yes, Amp Magic is lost by Razorgore, when Phase 1 ends.

Burnserker142 · 09/01/06, 9:23 PM

Originally Posted by ipcv

Originally Posted by Maklar

Originally Posted by Quigon

I heard you should do that to razorgore also right before the last egg is broken...

I know the adds lose it when MC breaks. Not sure if Razor would or not.

Yes, Amp Magic is lost by Razorgore, when Phase 1 ends.

WRONG
just did it like 2 minutes ago, and it stays on him.

Quigon · 09/01/06, 9:25 PM

This thread has gone back and forth on this little point about 6 times now... lets keep going it rules.

altairian · 09/01/06, 9:56 PM

Well, I'll be doing razor tomorrow night on my mage, if it's not resolved by then I'll get a screenshot if it does stay up ;)

Burnserker142 · 09/01/06, 11:04 PM

there ya go proof that it stays on

enshula · 09/02/06, 2:21 AM

Originally Posted by Boevis

I don't have a clue what you're saying here, 120% Bonus? And I'm just as capable of downranking heals and spamming them so I can have the mana for a NS heal if needed ... that's exactly what I do in fact.

Paladin with +500 healing casts Holy Light Rank 4 (347-399 after talents, 190 mana, 2.5 cast) on a target with Amp Magic (+150) and BoL Paladin heals target for 1050*2.5/3.5 = 750 + 347-399 = 1097-1149. 449 HPS, 5.9 HPM
Paladin with +500 healing casts Flash of Light rank 6 (384-429, 140 mana, 1.5 cast) 765*1.5/3.5 = 328 + 384-429 = 712-757. 489 HPS, 5.2 HPM
Druid with +500 healing casts Healing Touch Rank 4 (414-505 after talents, 150 mana, 2.5 cast) on a target with Amp Magic (+150) Druid heals target for 650*3/3.5 = 557 + 414-505 = 971-1062. 406 HPS, 6.8 HPM
Druid using Rank 6 HT (838-1006, 271 mana, 3 cast) 650 + 838-1006 = 1488-1656. 524 HPS, 5.8 HPM.

A 3.0 coefficient spell being cast in 2.5 seconds receives the same bonus from plus healing although the time has been reduced. In general spells gain castingtime/3.5 but because of adjusted casting time HT would be gaining (castingtime*1.2)/3.5.

3/2.5 = 1.2

By comparison a 2.5 second spell being reduced to 2.0 would be getting 125% of the coefficient. If you prefer to just adjust the coefficient from .71428 to .89285 thats fine but i find the other way simpler.

And the numbers were 1k +healing from gear 225 from amp magic at FoL4 from memory. Against a druid with 1k+ healing from gear 225 from amp magic and regrowth rank 4. Individual numbers though arnt important as everyone will have differant gear.

draghkar · 09/02/06, 6:48 AM

Originally Posted by Vernichter

How do amplify magic/dampen magic affect healing stream totem?

The not improved Amplify Magic adds +3 healing per tick.

Ariexv · 09/02/06, 9:42 AM

Can also Dampen Magic on Chrommagus so those 50hp Dots go down to 1hp/tick.

enshula · 09/02/06, 10:45 AM

Ariexv it crosses my mind that you may be playing on pre 1.12 wow. Someone was saying wow china isnt 1.12 yet on another thread. In 1.12 dampen magic was nerfed to prevent AoE grinding of air elementals in silithus.

Boevis · 09/03/06, 6:14 AM

Against a druid with 1k+ healing from gear 225 from amp magic and regrowth rank 4

May as well compare Blessing of Sacrifice (highly effective in certain situations) and Windwall Totem (never used), Regrowth is the red headed step child of healing spells, I only use it on trash fights when i'm feeling lazy, and on Maexxna for Web Spin, and then I use the max rank (9). If your druids are using Rank 4 Regrowth, kindly explain to them the concept of Mana Efficiency and overwriting HoTs.

The bonus from Amp Magic would be affected by vulnerabilities wouldn't it ... hadn't really thought of that, would be useful on Thaddius then right? Or is threat too much of an issue.

enshula · 09/03/06, 11:08 AM

Meh rejuvenation rank 4, got the spell name right in the first post was trying to clarify since you did HT numbers in your reply. Best bonus to +healing from time spent and mana used possible for a druid. Without checking whether downranking further results in more benefit in mana reduction or harm in coefficient penalty. :)

I fail at druid spell names sue me. :P

Northerner · 09/03/06, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Boevis

The bonus from Amp Magic would be affected by vulnerabilities wouldn't it ... hadn't really thought of that, would be useful on Thaddius then right? Or is threat too much of an issue.

Amp Magic is a 'defensive' buff and castable only on players or M/Ced targets. If we could apply it offensively on non-controlled bosses, it would be much more popular!

Boevis · 09/03/06, 2:13 PM

Right, duh .. I swear I knew that. <_<

And Rank 4 Rejuv is a HoT that recieves the same benefit from +healing as all the other ranks (80%) and is overwritten by all higher ranks. It also makes for a terribly inefficint swiftmend. Rereading your post, it seems like you're refering to "topping off" players, an activity that is overall wasteful of both time and mana, even for paladins. If you honestly think healers in endgame are spending 12 seconds to "top off" multiple people that are only down 500 with spamming fast heals or HoTs, then you are severly mistaken. When we realize this is how healers are spending their time, we replace them with DPS so the fight goes faster.

Incoherence · 09/03/06, 5:33 PM

Originally Posted by Boevis

And Rank 4 Rejuv is a HoT that recieves the same benefit from +healing as all the other ranks (80%) and is overwritten by all higher ranks.

Actually, as of 1.12, this is no longer true. It's overwritten by any Rejuv that ticks for more. (Yes, they actually fixed HoT overriding. I didn't believe it myself until I did some testing with Renew last week.)