Blocked critical attacks possible?

polocabbit · 09/01/06, 12:54 AM

So I'm in naxx right now and something really interesting just happened...

Can anyone explain to me how this is possible?

Ultramax · 09/01/06, 12:58 AM

Mob to player mechanics are not the same as player to mob.

polocabbit · 09/01/06, 12:59 AM

But I thought by using shield block to increase your block rate, it woudl also push off the chance the mob could crit/crushing blow you or something from the hit table.

Rane · 09/01/06, 1:01 AM

Originally Posted by polocabbit

But I thought by using shield block to increase your block rate, it woudl also push off the chance the mob could crit/crushing blow you or something from the hit table.

Originally Posted by Ultramax

Mob to player mechanics are not the same as player to mob.

Yea...

polocabbit · 09/01/06, 1:04 AM

Originally Posted by Rane

Originally Posted by polocabbit

But I thought by using shield block to increase your block rate, it woudl also push off the chance the mob could crit/crushing blow you or something from the hit table.

Originally Posted by Ultramax

Mob to player mechanics are not the same as player to mob.

Yea...

Wow nevermind, I totally read that wrong. I could've SWORE it said I blocked an attack =\ 4 hours of sleep ftl. Can you shit heap this for me Gurgthock?

Gwaihir · 09/01/06, 1:10 AM

Mob block has to function slightly different than player block. I don't know entirely how, but that is the only thing it can be. Mobs can also block ranged attacks, for what it's worth.

I've tested with a warrior and shield block, and while players can block ranged as well, it does not work as it should. Namely, with over 100% block, you don't actually block the shot. 100% of the time.

Screenshots (pardon the old messy UI):

polocabbit · 09/01/06, 1:15 AM

yeah, when I originally read my combat log I could've swore I had blocked the attack, but I reread it.

I remember reading a thread a while ago where a warrior used recklessness on another warrior who was spamming shield block and in his combat log it showed a blocked crit. I believe they said something about overlapping hit tables or something.

psychaotic · 09/01/06, 1:15 AM

Players can block ranged attacks too, which can be mildly entertaining when blocking an arrow proc's 8-piece wrath to sit there for awhile.

Xard · 09/01/06, 1:42 AM

well player to player is also not the same as player to mob. Players do not dodge from behind, for instance.

Bolche · 09/01/06, 3:33 AM

I think you can block special attacks crits.

Duel a rogue and let him spam SS from front, I think you will parry some SS crit (but never his white damage crit)

zepi · 09/01/06, 4:28 AM

Originally Posted by Gwaihir

I've tested with a warrior and shield block, and while players can block ranged as well, it does not work as it should. Namely, with over 100% block, you don't actually block the shot. 100% of the time.

Could it be, that shieldblock gives a multiplicative increase to block% instead of a steady?

Like if you have 30% block from gear and 75% block from shieldblock you'd still have 0,7*0,25 = 0.175 change not to block?

Like the new thread reduction multiplication system.

edit: 0.175 is the correct value for not to block... sorry for typo.

Gwaihir · 09/01/06, 4:33 AM

Well, I was certainly testing this before the threat changes, but I suppose that is possible. More likely it is just some fucked up mechanic in the combat system that has never been fixed. (Blocks with ranged attacks, that is.)

pinkius · 09/02/06, 3:00 PM

Originally Posted by polocabbit

yeah, when I originally read my combat log I could've swore I had blocked the attack, but I reread it.

I remember reading a thread a while ago where a warrior used recklessness on another warrior who was spamming shield block and in his combat log it showed a blocked crit. I believe they said something about overlapping hit tables or something.

If a player hits shield block and has 100% to block, he HAS to block the next attack..but if lets say a rogue just hit cold blood and has 100% chance to crit, he HAS to crit. If that rogue hits that warrior, it gets blocked and it crits. That's the only time it happens, when both people have 100% chance to crit/block because yeah, their tables basically overlap.

heel · 09/02/06, 3:27 PM

Originally Posted by pinkius

Originally Posted by polocabbit

yeah, when I originally read my combat log I could've swore I had blocked the attack, but I reread it.

I remember reading a thread a while ago where a warrior used recklessness on another warrior who was spamming shield block and in his combat log it showed a blocked crit. I believe they said something about overlapping hit tables or something.

If a player hits shield block and has 100% to block, he HAS to block the next attack..but if lets say a rogue just hit cold blood and has 100% chance to crit, he HAS to crit. If that rogue hits that warrior, it gets blocked and it crits. That's the only time it happens, when both people have 100% chance to crit/block because yeah, their tables basically overlap.

Pretty sure this is incorrect - afaik, there's only one table, and block populates it before anything else. If Cold Blood just sets a rogue's critical chance to 100%, the hit should be blocked and NOT crit against a warrior with 100% block. I would certainly like to see a screenshot showing otherwise if you have one, though.

xarg · 09/02/06, 10:16 PM

This has been gone over so many times that it's pretty old now. Yes, it is possible in pvp and when a player is hitting an enemy for crits to be blocked. It's been proven and demonstrated time and time again.

Shield block causing a lack of crits/crushing blows is the exception, not the rule. In all other cases, it's possible.

pinkius · 09/03/06, 1:58 AM

Originally Posted by heel

Originally Posted by pinkius

Originally Posted by polocabbit

yeah, when I originally read my combat log I could've swore I had blocked the attack, but I reread it.

I remember reading a thread a while ago where a warrior used recklessness on another warrior who was spamming shield block and in his combat log it showed a blocked crit. I believe they said something about overlapping hit tables or something.

If a player hits shield block and has 100% to block, he HAS to block the next attack..but if lets say a rogue just hit cold blood and has 100% chance to crit, he HAS to crit. If that rogue hits that warrior, it gets blocked and it crits. That's the only time it happens, when both people have 100% chance to crit/block because yeah, their tables basically overlap.

Pretty sure this is incorrect - afaik, there's only one table, and block populates it before anything else. If Cold Blood just sets a rogue's critical chance to 100%, the hit should be blocked and NOT crit against a warrior with 100% block. I would certainly like to see a screenshot showing otherwise if you have one, though.

test it yourself, have a warrior hit shield block and have a rogue cold blood hit him

• Nemesis · 09/03/06, 8:28 AM

Originally Posted by xarg

This has been gone over so many times that it's pretty old now. Yes, it is possible in pvp and when a player is hitting an enemy for crits to be blocked. It's been proven and demonstrated time and time again.

Shield block causing a lack of crits/crushing blows is the exception, not the rule. In all other cases, it's possible.

I actually have never seen a screenshot of a player blocking a crit.
A mob blocking a players' crit, yeah, thats pretty common. On a previous thread, not sure what it was about, someone mentioned a blocked crit but didn't respond again when asked for a screenshot :)
So yeah, I'd love a screenshot of a player blocking a crit, either from a mob or from another player (the latter is probably easier to test)

pinkius · 09/05/06, 3:40 PM

SS inc

Gwaihir · 09/05/06, 4:07 PM

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Originally Posted by xarg

This has been gone over so many times that it's pretty old now. Yes, it is possible in pvp and when a player is hitting an enemy for crits to be blocked. It's been proven and demonstrated time and time again.

Shield block causing a lack of crits/crushing blows is the exception, not the rule. In all other cases, it's possible.

I actually have never seen a screenshot of a player blocking a crit.
A mob blocking a players' crit, yeah, thats pretty common. On a previous thread, not sure what it was about, someone mentioned a blocked crit but didn't respond again when asked for a screenshot :)
So yeah, I'd love a screenshot of a player blocking a crit, either from a mob or from another player (the latter is probably easier to test)

I posted a screenshot of a warrior blocking a crit autoshot earlier in this thread.

Celandro · 09/05/06, 4:15 PM

yellow damage can both crit and be blocked
white damage can not crit and be blocked, only blocked.

This is really really old news.

Kalman · 09/05/06, 4:39 PM

Originally Posted by Celandro

yellow damage can both crit and be blocked
white damage can not crit and be blocked, only blocked.

This is really really old news.

And the reason the distinction is important:

Mob yellow damage doesn't crit. Player yellow damage does. That's why "Shield block prevents crits" is true in PvE, but not necessarily in PvP.

hubar · 09/05/06, 4:59 PM

Originally Posted by Gwaihir

Mob block has to function slightly different than player block. I don't know entirely how, but that is the only thing it can be. Mobs can also block ranged attacks, for what it's worth.

I've tested with a warrior and shield block, and while players can block ranged as well, it does not work as it should. Namely, with over 100% block, you don't actually block the shot. 100% of the time.

What HUD is that?

Gort · 09/05/06, 5:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kalman

Originally Posted by Celandro

yellow damage can both crit and be blocked
white damage can not crit and be blocked, only blocked.

This is really really old news.

And the reason the distinction is important:

Mob yellow damage doesn't crit. Player yellow damage does. That's why "Shield block prevents crits" is true in PvE, but not necessarily in PvP.

Uh... You sure about that? I'm fairly certain I've both seen and experienced some truly stunning Unbalancing Strike crits. (Current guild record: ~58k.)

Now, if US doesn't count as "yellow damage", then I'll cheerfully slap a silly hat on and call myself "irrelevant and WRONGWRONGWRONG"...

Kalman · 09/05/06, 5:25 PM

Gort: Uhm, yeah, pretty sure about that. Mob non-autos don't crit. I have never seen a SS of a critical yellow attack. That UBS you ate? Was exactly how hard Razuvious UBS *hits* for, modified appropriately for your total lack of armor.

I get UBS for ~54k. There's a reason the adds need to have Shield Wall.

Jekar · 09/05/06, 6:43 PM

Originally Posted by Kalman

Originally Posted by Celandro

yellow damage can both crit and be blocked
white damage can not crit and be blocked, only blocked.

This is really really old news.

And the reason the distinction is important:

Mob yellow damage doesn't crit. Player yellow damage does. That's why "Shield block prevents crits" is true in PvE, but not necessarily in PvP.

MOB yellow damage can crit, I've taken a crit UBS from the Twin Emps before on a wipe. Broodlord can crit with MS.

There are some exceptions to this, like Patchwerk's HS which does not crit.