Blocked critical attacks possible? - Page 2

Gwaihir · 09/05/06, 6:55 PM

Not to be totally cliche.. but screenshots or it didn't happen.

Kalman · 09/05/06, 7:01 PM

Originally Posted by Jekar

Originally Posted by Kalman

Originally Posted by Celandro

yellow damage can both crit and be blocked
white damage can not crit and be blocked, only blocked.

This is really really old news.

And the reason the distinction is important:

Mob yellow damage doesn't crit. Player yellow damage does. That's why "Shield block prevents crits" is true in PvE, but not necessarily in PvP.

MOB yellow damage can crit, I've taken a crit UBS from the Twin Emps before on a wipe. Broodlord can crit with MS.

There are some exceptions to this, like Patchwerk's HS which does not crit.

You haven't taken a crit UBS. You're mistaking a normal UBS hit vs. rogue armor for a crit, because you're used to seeing it vs. tank armor.

There are *no* known exceptions to the "mob yellow damage does not crit" rule. Screenshot one if you find one and I'll give you a cookie.

Gort · 09/05/06, 7:02 PM

Originally Posted by Kalman

Gort: Uhm, yeah, pretty sure about that. Mob non-autos don't crit. I have never seen a SS of a critical yellow attack. That UBS you ate? Was exactly how hard Razuvious UBS *hits* for, modified appropriately for your total lack of armor.

I get UBS for ~54k. There's a reason the adds need to have Shield Wall.

Hm. I could indeed be misremembering. I'd say I'd go test, but I'm not exactly eager to find out... I'm happy enough taking your word for that.

Zerianne · 09/05/06, 8:26 PM

There's a screenshot floating around right now on the wow.com general forums of a warrior with shield block up being crit by a rogue with cold blood. The author considers it inarguable proof that there is no "table" of outcomes and that it uses a 2-roll system. :P Of course that doesn't make sense, or your observed crit chance would be much lower than spellbook, and increase with +hit, which doesn't happen. It doesn't take long tracking swings to realize the outcomes are in fact atomic. While this is best explained by a "single roll" table-based system, it doesn't explain blocked crits. I'd like to know what's going on here myself. If it's table-based, is there just a set of outcomes in it that is "blocked crit" (as opposed to pushing crit off)? How is that percentage calculated? If it's not, then how is it explained at all?

I realize it's just pvp and is a different mechanic in mob vs player (which is what most people care about), but when people use it to try and prove an entire set of assumptions wrong, it's difficult to argue with. You can't say "well.. pve uses a single-roll table, and pvp works entirely different" because I doubt that's the case either. The details, in terms of what is possible, obviously work differently -- for example mobs dodging from behind, crushing blows, glancing blows, blocked crits, etc. But I doubt they designed two entirely different systems for pvp and pve. Surely there are only slight modifications to either (a) what outcomes are possible, and (b) their priorities.

So.. blocked crits? These are two different outcomes, which shouldn't be possible with current thoughts on the table-based attack system (see combat mechanics 3.0). Something's not right here.

Celandro · 09/06/06, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Zerianne

There's a screenshot floating around right now on the wow.com general forums of a warrior with shield block up being crit by a rogue with cold blood. The author considers it inarguable proof that there is no "table" of outcomes and that it uses a 2-roll system. :P Of course that doesn't make sense, or your observed crit chance would be much lower than spellbook, and increase with +hit, which doesn't happen. It doesn't take long tracking swings to realize the outcomes are in fact atomic. While this is best explained by a "single roll" table-based system, it doesn't explain blocked crits. I'd like to know what's going on here myself. If it's table-based, is there just a set of outcomes in it that is "blocked crit" (as opposed to pushing crit off)? How is that percentage calculated? If it's not, then how is it explained at all?

I realize it's just pvp and is a different mechanic in mob vs player (which is what most people care about), but when people use it to try and prove an entire set of assumptions wrong, it's difficult to argue with. You can't say "well.. pve uses a single-roll table, and pvp works entirely different" because I doubt that's the case either. The details, in terms of what is possible, obviously work differently -- for example mobs dodging from behind, crushing blows, glancing blows, blocked crits, etc. But I doubt they designed two entirely different systems for pvp and pve. Surely there are only slight modifications to either (a) what outcomes are possible, and (b) their priorities.

So.. blocked crits? These are two different outcomes, which shouldn't be possible with current thoughts on the table-based attack system (see combat mechanics 3.0). Something's not right here.

Did you read this thread at all? yellow damage crits can be blocked. white damage blocks can not be crit. Nothing mysterious. They DID design 2 different systems for yellow and white damage and for mobs vs players.

More breaking news... white damage can also glance but yellow damage can't! pvp white damage will never glance! if you have 100% crit rate and 0%hit and you are dual wielding from the front, you will only have 18.6% crit rate against a level 63 mob! Edgemaster gauntlets are the highest dps gloves in the game! Thunderfury proc is about the same agro as 2 sunders! Demo Shout works great on some mobs! omg omg omg!