Sarana

Level 60 Hunter Spreadsheet (using Lactose’s cycle formulae)
(September 19, 2006)

Hey guys, here is a spreadsheet I made to help compare specs and armor sets for survival and marksmanship hunters to compare raid damage. Most of the spreadsheets I have seen were too complicated or didn't work correctly so I tried to make this simple. Tell me what you guys think. This is still a work in progress, any ideas, fixes or help would be appreciated.

Level 60 Hunter Spreadsheet: Version 3.2
Quickdump
Filefront

Burning Crusade Spreadsheet: Version 3.2 Alpha
Quickdump
Filefront

Spreadsheet includes:
Full and clipped cycle damage comparisons using Lactose’s formulae
Un-buffed, self-buffed and raid-buffed statistics
Two sets of talents and armor sets to compare with
Drop down armor menus and selectable buffs
Average and maximum burst damage for PvP
Mana longevity (Spirit not included, sorry T_T)
Damage per mana ratio
And a few other goodies…!


Read more about Lactose’s formulae at http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....15211926&sid=1

 

Sarana

Updates:
3.2 September 19 Added ranged weapon classifications and +Ranged racials. Renamed “Other†to “Misc†in Set-A/B. Renamed “Necklace of Kel’Thuzad†to “Stormrage’s Talisman of Seething.†New spell and buff ranks added to Burning Crusade Spreadsheet.
3.13 September 14 Fixed a few errors in how stat comparisons were calculated. Changed Weapons to 20% for expansion spread sheet.
3.12 September 13 Small change in the +Ranged skill & started expansion version.
3.11 September 08 Fixed an error in Set-B’s comparison where it was using Set-A’s item stat for on “Use" trinkets.
3.1 September 06 Renamed Bow of the Four Horsemen to Soulstring and changed Slavemaker to 3.2 (from 3.0). Added Horde totems and Onyxia chain buff. Added Barrage Shoulders to item list. Fixed a bug in Set-B Comparison’s AC calculation.

 

• frmorrison

Looked decent overall. The comparison of A vs. B was confusing, I wasn't sure where you got your comparison calcs from. I would have liked to have seen a Raptor strikes calc for A and B.

For fun you could add the new Naxx shoulder enchant, 26 AP 1 crit.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Avellyr

Well I haven't had a chance to go over it thoroughly, but let me just say: you're an excel god

 

Sarana

Sorry, I guess I should have explained some of it a bit more. On the comparison page, there are individual stats for both sets, A & B. At the bottom is where you find the comparison of which is better or worse. For raiding, the main item to look at would be the “Optimal DPS†in the bottom box which would be the “Custom Buffed†cycle DPS comparison. There is also note at the bottom which says, “Positive values show that Set B is better than Set A.†So obviously, negative would mean the opposite.

About Raptor Strike, I already have it on the maximum and burst damage. And uh... hmm… if you really want to see average damage for raptor strike, it should be in the hidden sheet called “Math." Set is should be in between K75-K77 and Set-B should be between Y75-77.

I have also already added the shoulder enchant. It is called “Might of the Scourge†and can be found using the drop down menu for the shoulder enchant slot.

 

Keltan

Very impressive Sarana. Nice clean interface while still giving you tons of information.

 

Crazypie

Holy crap... Beautiful.

Edit: how long did this take cuz it's amazing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xi6WsB8dZcE
Raiding music that gets things done.
The best Theorycraft and Mathcraft happens after a raid and before the sun comes up.

 

Rabid Rob

QFT QFT QFT

I've whiled away more than one hour on your spreadsheets :)

OMG, I can't wait to see the expac version with all those shammy buffs!

 

Elendril

very cool. still trying to figure out all the neat things it can do :)

 

Groglox

Not sure if they were in there, but I didn't find any Horde buffs. =[

Also is the mana regen from Black Grasp considered based on weapon speed + rotation?

edit: Otherwise beautiful spreadsheet. I can actually use this one without getting confused!

 

Sarana

Cazypie: I have been working on the spreadsheet for a while, but on and off. I added bits at a time during my breaks in between classes, haha. I just recently switched to different formulas and tried to make it look more attractive.

Groglox: Oops! Being in an Alliance guild, Horde buffs seem to have slipped my mind. Can some one please tell me what buffs the Horde have that effect hunters (and maybe their values ^_^)?
To show Black Grasp’s mana regeneration, I used the number of shots per cycle.


Nasq reported an error in Set-B comparison where it was not taking AC debuffs into account (thanks ^_^). I will post an updated version with the fix and horde buffs when I get the values.


Thanks for the comments so far! :kaubel:

 

DarkChylde

Horde raid buffs:
Warchief's Blessing - http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=16609

Horde party buffs:
Grace of Air (Rank 1) - +43 Agi
Grace of Air (Rank 2) - +67 Agi
Grace of Air (Rank 3) - +77 Agi

Strength of Earth (Rank 1) - +10 Str
Strength of Earth (Rank 2) - +20 Str
Strength of Earth (Rank 3) - +36 Str
Strength of Earth (Rank 4) - +61 Str
Strength of Earth (Rank 5) - +77 Str

Enhancing Totems [Tier 3 Enhancement Talent]
(1/2) - Increases the effect of your Strength of Earth and Grace of Air Totems by 8%
(2/2) - Increases the effect of your Strength of Earth and Grace of Air Totems by 15%

Bow of the Four Horsemen is actually called Soulstring now.

There was an older hunter spreadsheet made by Stony from the EU forums that has some slighter better user friendly options as well as some visuals that you could incorporate, if you'd like to check it out I could email it.

 

Sarana

DarkChylde: Wow, how come there is a Horde only buff -.-, does that haste effect ranged attacks?
Just making sure, that 77 Agility is before talents right? So it would be about 88 Agility after talents?

I will change Soulstring and I believe Slavemaker is 3.2 now… so I’ll change that too.

I’d be glad to take a look at that spreadsheet, just send it to me at italiasan2k5@yahoo.com, thanks in advanced.

 

DarkChylde

It's part of our Onyxia quest chain. It does not effect ranged. Not sure how Blizzard does rounding, but 15% of 77 is 88.55.

 

Fendryl

Very nicely done Sarana, one question where are you hiding the gear data? I'd like to add Barrage shoulders, but can't seem to find where to put it =)

Edit: Never mind, I found it with some more digging around, thanks anyways!

 

KraJee

First of all ... excellent work. As other have said, the spreadsheet looks great.

A couple bugs :
1.) On the Comparison Page, the set b stat damage ratio box seems to be malfunctioning. Even with the same gear, the values are way off from set a -> set b. Aside from the malfunction, the custom buffed section appears to be reporting false values as well. Agility is worth less AP with kings than it is without it according to that line. It also reports some crazy random numbers on occasion.

2.) (not positive about this one) It's reporting the cycle rotation time for Nerubian Slavemaker as 11.33 seconds, which I "think" is incorrect. I can't get Lactose's thread to load atm, so I could be wrong. I was thinking the optimal cycle for that bow (assuming 3.2 speed) would be closer to 9 seconds. I guess it's not a big deal since we don't actually know the correct values for it.


Again, though, thanks very much for the hard work. This thing looks great, and I eagerly await it's completion! :D

 

◊ Shalas

Lactose's spreadsheet says a 9.07 second unclipped rotation is optimal for 3.2 seconds. 11.33 seconds is the full cycle time for a 3.2 weapon with 15% haste if you ignore the aimed -> autoshot delay, which leads me to suspect that the spreadsheet isn't including that.

 

Twid

I'm curious what changes I need to make to the math sheet in order to get it to use a 10.42s cycle to incorporate an extra auto-shot with Ashj'rethul

 

Sarana

KraJee:
1.) I believe I may have forgotten to add kings to the agility ratio but even so, I don’t seem to be getting any crazy numbers. Can you please show me an example? Also, note that there is a level and armor rating for both Set-A and B, make sure they are the same. I will work on adding kings to the agility some time soon.
2.) The problem with the Nerubian Slavemaker is that it is currently listed as 3.0 (older stats I have seen). I will be uploading an update in a few minutes which will include the 3.2 speed version. I wasn’t really sure of the real stats since there is no physical proof of the crossbow yet since Kel’Thuzad has not been killed on live servers yet.

Twid: You probably did not include the 5 second delay on the free Autoshot after Aimed shot was fired. Hope that helped :)

 

KraJee

I downloaded it from scratch again. Set A and B start with the same spec and gear (MM w/ FM + DS armor), and I've changed nothing. The only difference between the gear from the downloaded versions it that Set B uses Royal Seal of Eldre'Thalas instead of Slayer's Crest. When I go to the "Comparison" tab, I see vastly different values in the Stat Damage Ratio boxes.

My spreadsheet says the following:

Set A (Stat = +1 Crit and the values are from the AP column) :
Unbuffed: 30.72
Self Buffed: 32.53
Custom Buffed: 32.36

Set B (Stat = +1 Crit and the values are from the AP column) :
Unbuffed: 0.31
Self Buffed: 0.27
Custom Buffed: 0.22

**Note : The values in the agility column are different as well.

Is there something else I need to do? All of the various damage squares are very close to the same due to the small difference in AP given by the crest, but these values appear to be way off.

Thanks in advance!

 

bife

Is it possible to get a version with a more comprehensive gear list?

 

Naghat

Bife - The spreadsheet is actually rather friendly with respect to adding gear that is not already included.

1) Go to Format - > Sheet - > Unhide and from there you can display the Math, Enchant, or Items sheets that were hidden by the author.

2) Add the Name & Stats of your item in the appropriate category.

3) Go to Insert -> Name -> Define and update the range on the appropriate name to include your new items.

 

Sarana

KraJee: Howdy, I’ve been very tied up with school and raiding the past two days so I have not had much time to check the problem. Today I did some searching and I noticed that there was an error in Set-B’s “Use†trinkets where it was looking at Set-A’s item set. I’ll update the link in a few minutes. Thanks for catching the bug. ^_^

Bife: What kind of armor are you looking for? I can probably add if it you’d like (if it’s not tier 0 or .5… they look too ugly :V: ). As Naghat said, it’s not too hard to add yourself.

 

Farstrider

Rather than start a new thread I thought this might be an appropriate place to start getting a few thoughts on the apparent changes with regard to RAP/agility.

I assume that this has been done to counter the amount of dps we were getting from RAP which was making choice of ranged weapon (outside of speed) quite irrelevant.

One major problem I see with the change (i.e. 1 agi - 1 RAP rather than 1 agi - 2 RAP) is that a lot of itemisation is going to need to be redone.

Consider:-

Barb of the Sand Reaver
Binds when picked up
Two-Hand Polearm
225 - 338 Damage Speed 3.70
(76.1 damage per second)
+41 Agility
+31 Stamina
enchanted with +25 agi

under new rules, at level 60, that means 66 RAP and 1.24% crit.

Barbarous Blade
Binds when picked up
Two-Hand Sword
138 - 207 Damage Speed 3.20
(53.9 damage per second)
Equip: Improves your chance to get a critical strike by 1%.
Equip: +60 Attack Power
enchanted with +25 agi

under new rules, at level 60, that means 85 RAP and 1.47% crit.

Now I know you're getting a *lot* of stamina on the Barb but all the same, that stamina isn't really reflective of the difference in difficulty getting hold of the two weapons. And Barbarous Blade looks a *lot* cooler!

Seems like this change is going to mean a lot of work for Blizzard to rebalance things, and also means suddenly we're going to be after exactly the same necks/trinkets/rings as rogues, even more than before.

John O'Groats to Lands End 2009 for Leukaemia Research

 

Fendryl

New agi:crit is supposedly 33:1, also remember that the blades crit will be changed to crit rating of 14 too. Dunno if agi:crit at 70 will still be 33:1 or what though.