Kasi

Just tried this tonight and it wasn't the funnest experience. I use a 7/31/13 fury/prot build and am the main OT here. But for tonight I was on dps and can do pretty well in that. However in this group I don't think their paladins give warriors salv (despite how much I've asked a couple times) and I think on one of the wipes here I ripped agro off the MT and died. Pretty sure it was an agro pull cause of the elemental fire death. Now the MT doesn't even have 300 FR buffed yet (maybe 250ish?) so that probably hurts.

Is each time the MT gets knocked back a complete agro wipe? With the common running out and then running back in after knockbacks how long should I wait before dps'ing again? It seems that to even do much I'm going to have to spend half my time not even attacking in fear I'll pull agro and die. I'm just pissed that I pulled agro I guess and any tips on how to effective dps in there with no agro reduction spells would be appreciated.

 

Whiteknight

Ragsy is rooted, so if he knocks the MT back, he's going to turn and hit the highest threat person in melee range - you.
The knockback doesn't have a deaggro component that I'm aware of.

 

Kasi

Yeah okay that makes sense. What we did was just pulled out when the knockback hit. I generally waited a few seconds before going back in to let the mt come back, but I think I still pulled agro. Its very frustrating.

 

Schneeb

Dont think ive ever been to a rag kill where melee DPS hasnt got the 'agro dot' .. rag agro seems very random at best, I'd just stack FR and beg a warlock for a stone :>

 

xarg

If he knocks the MT back, you generally have an OT to taunt it. Now if that OT has to run in and taunt, some melee dps is going to be tanking him for those 2 seconds. If you're a fury warrior, you're top of the list :) Rogues can vanish, but all a warrior really has to do is whack a pot and leg it out of melee range before you get splattered.

 

IceBox

died 3 times at our last rag, even with salvation cause the mt got kicked and BAM! Elemental Fire, me dai :>

 

Emth

My understanding of it is that even if the MT (or anyone else) resists the knockback there is a large hate reduction. Basically tanks should be ready to taunt after every knockback. If you are worried about aggro just stay out of melee range for a few seconds.

http://ctprofiles.net/404078

 

• DeeNogger

if your MT is at 250 FR buffed, then i wonder what your FR is at? is it possible that pulling aggro on rag with sub par FR is whats getting you killed so fast? we require 150 FR unbuffed for all our warriors. 315 buffed for our MT/OT. rouges at 125, blah blah blah. usually during a rag fight we have a fury warrior end up tanking him for like 2 seconds. with decent FR, they should last (and a healer that reacts accordingly).

I write things The word of DeeNogger -- New Blog Post November Something

 

◊ Belac_K

Dying as meelee dps on Rag is your own fault, just back out of melee range each time a knock is about to happen.

 

Pyros

Like someone said, there's some kind of trick with threat during the knockback, even when you resist it. When I was tanking that fight, I would taunt after every knockback to keep him on me for sure. If you're OTing, only taunt when you see the other warrior flying around. However, there will always be a few people dieing every now and then, mainly due to the fact threat generation is not always optimal when using full FR, because of massive resists which adds up to avoidance, making rage generation not that good. Try to gear up on FR for melee dps, and melee from max range, if you take aggro take a step back, with 200+fr you should be able to live thru one or 2 hits.

 

Phoenix

What probably happened Kasi is you got into melee range a fraction before the MT did so Rag' turned to you.

If your melee pull out at every knockback, for two reasons. If you resist and the MT doesn't you run the risk of Rag' squishing you. If you don't resist, you run the risk of simply dieing - if you land on solid ground your probably gonna die due to the fall damage.

Another thing to watch out for is that no-one is near the MT. If someone is and they get targeted by the ranged AoE explosion Rag' does, again the MT gets knocked out of melee range and Rag' will turn to whoever has most aggro in melee and squish them.

And get your MT in 315 FR ASAP as the MT will resist the vast amjority of knockbacks then - when your trying for your first Rag' kill you can't afford any downtime in DPS and waiting for an OT to run in and establish a bit of aggro' is precisely that. Note this only applies to melee - ranged can go all out the entire fight regardless of MT knockbacks.

FWIW I've always found aggro at Rag' to be very stable.

 

Whiteknight

I know this is a little offtopic, but, just for the record, this should read: "no-one with a mana bar is near the MT." (or near the rogues/melee)
This point is often missed, and it is crucial to optimizing the ragnaros encounter. The horizontal knockback (explosions) target players with a mana bar, but can blow up anyone in range of the explosion.

Basically, you can (should) put the MT and the OT on top of each other, and all the melee dps standing on top of each other behind rag to maximize the amount of available space on the inner ring (for paladins/shamans aura/totems or judgements, etc).



Back on topic; Ragnaros is a lvl 63 mob - taunts get resisted. If the MT gets punted and the OT taunt is resisted, some other melee is likely to be taking hits. Backing out is a good thing. Similarly, it's entirely possible for a fury war to pull aggro off the MT in this fight, especially below 20%. This is a good time for the MT (or even OT) to taunt :)
And no, I've seen no evidence that there is a deaggro in this fight - KB resisted or not - with the exception of the actual submerge, which may be an aggro reset, although it's not really important either way.

 

• squiffy

In personal experience Wrath of Ragnaros, even if resisted, has a large de-agro associated with it. I've had situations where resisted 4 Wrath's in a row, for a rogue to run back into melee range and get agro.

You can't use the "taunt to get ranged's threat" any more, so it's a bit less forgiving on the melee dps nowdays.

 

Vosk

When I dps on my warrior, I usually end up dead on the ragnaros encounter. I've done it consistantly with three different guilds, three different main tanks, and somehow I always end up dead.

Maybe I'm just dumb or something, but I have no problems pulling aggro on any other encounter in the game. :\

[13:49] <manly> buu: RIGHT NOW, ALL THE DATA WE HAVE IS 7.3% MULTIPLIER
[13:49] <manly> FUCK

 

Rane

Fill in your profile please.

 

◊ Praetorian

Wrath is a huge deaggro, but Rag is tauntable. Just have someone taunt after every WoR, resisted or not, and you'll be fine.

 

Tokotangic

The best part is getting the charge off before he puts you in combat :D

Sounds like your best deal is eating a knockback or two and intercepting back down.

 

Kasi

I think it was a combination of the MT not having full FR (he had around 250 or so last night) and getting knocked back more and the guy who was supposed to taunt not getting in there quickly enough when the MT got punted. Yeah I don't quite have enough FR either. Maybe 115 or so unbuffed. Next time should be much higher though. But still until I know things are more stable I think I'm going to be very cautious now on the dps so I can stay alive til sons.

Thanks for the help though. I might even try that intercept trick. Could be fun. :)

 

Whiteknight

Honestly I didn't believe this because if the WoR were a deaggro, the best strategy would be to have the melee put on 315 FR and never back out because they'd eat the deaggro too. In practise, this simply doesn't have any effect on who pulls aggro. On doing a little more research, the best description I could come up with for the effect is: "Aggro doesn't exactly reset, but the MT's threat is definitely reduced."
I.e. it's not an AoE deaggro, but it does deaggro the MT.

I guess I learned something new :)

 

• frmorrison

Wrath of Rag and Wing Buffet have the similiar entries on Thottbot.

WoR
Knock Back
Value: 400-450
Radius: 25 yards
Value: 100

WB
Knock Back
Value: 150
Radius: 20 yards
Value: 250

So it seems there is a deaggro, but it is weaker than Wing Buffet's (100 vs 250).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

xarg

Probably similar to broodlord? Two separate knock-back effects, one with a deaggro on the MT, one with a very minor if at all deaggro and in an aoe fashion.

 

Kenco

The "Knock Back" entries on thottbot aren't the threat reducing thing - abilities like (mob's) charge and uppercut and blast wave have this entry.

I think Rag clears all threat every knockback because I've seen a dps warrior get hit by the knockback, punted to an outside ring, spend about 30 seconds getting back, then get aggro almost imediately after reengaging Rag, despite both MT's been in position. It seems to fit given that the melee dps usually stands back for the knockbacks, so the MT gets a few seconds to build a threat buffer.

 

• squiffy

Heh, so it's now "Rag clears all agro, and Onyxia never clears agro".

_b

 

altairian

Back when rag was changed to his current forum people immediately came to the conclusion that aggro resets on every WoR. Based on my observations that would seem to be the case.

If it weren't a hate list reset and actually a just a large threat loss to anyone hit by it, why would you have all your melee avoid it with no way for your MT to regain the hate he lost? That'd be like tanking broodlord with 1 warrior, you'd hit an aggro ceiling and people would die.