When it comes to theorycrafting talk I generally see discussions on ToEP/ZHC/Briarwood. What I don't usually see are discssions on the Eye of Rend, MQG, Draconic Infused Emblem or the Cenarion ring (name escapes me this early and it's not a trinket so I lied in the title). I'd love to see some numbers from people smarter than I with the scary numbers on the dps utility of those trinkets.

I currently have ToEP with Eye of Rend and MQG. As a fire mage I find MQG leads to OOM status with a quickness so I'm loathe to use it too much. Any thoughts/numbers?

MQG is extremly useful for enrage encounters such as maexxna or huhuran because it
definitely has the best burst potential in a short period of time.

otherwise i would prefer ToEP (if you have a strong passive +dmg trinket such as neltharion) since ZHC isn't worth wearing any longer except PvP because it was so nerfed lately.

at least in naxxramas i usually wear neltharion's tear/rune of the dawn when i'm
on lazy-mage mode...for instance you just could simply switch trinkets during trash mob's
etc.

Eye of rend? Isn't that the leather crit chance head?

I've been wearing my eye of the beast a lot ately, its a potent little blue. I have a ZHC, a toep, eye of the beast, and a the rune for naxx. In naxx ill usually wear the toep and the rune, and elsewhere I'd wear toep with eye of the beast.

I bet you have the Eye of the Beast (not they Eye of Rend) and I think nearly all mages/warlocks has had that one at one point or another ... I had it for ages until I replaced it with the warlock DM trinket ...but yes, crits are fun, especially in PvP.

Eye of rend? Isn't that the leather crit chance head?

I've been wearing my eye of the beast a lot ately, its a potent little blue. I have a ZHC, a toep, eye of the beast, and a the rune for naxx. In naxx ill usually wear the toep and the rune, and elsewhere I'd wear toep with eye of the beast.

We're working through BWL now so Neltharion's Tear (which is obviously awesomesauce to borrow a phrase) isn't an option. Right now it feels like MQG isn't comparing to Eye of Rend over an entire MC run but I see the utility for the future. And, oh, the fun with MQG and Molten Fury.

The ring is called Wrath of Cenarius~

edited for typo

That's the one. Is the proc rate on the ring worth replacing a straight passive +damage ring with?

I should note that I'm playing Alliance so crit aggro hasn't entered the equation with my current gear as of yet with regards to Eye of the Beast discussion.

The DIE is unpopular partly because it's new, and partly because it's fairly rare. It's a fairly simple thing to, before doing an UBRS run, have a priest mind vision to check on Jed for an easy Briarwood. For a frost mage, it means 6 casts getting 6/7 of the benefit (+514 damage total) every 75 seconds (6.9 DPS) before crits.

Briarwood on the other hand is a solid 9.9 DPS (29*3/3.5/2.5) before crits.

Eye of Rend can be said to increase your DPS by 2% before other crits, which means that generally you'd have to be doing 500 DPS before crits to make it better than Briarwood (>9.9/.02) A point at which most mages will have ToEP/Neltharions Tear/MQG. In early endgame, Crits are extremely dangerous as most Tanks are still learning to hold aggro, and mage health is horribly low.

The Cenarion Ring ... supposedly it's a 10% proc rate, which can overlap, and is dependant on the spell actually doing damage. Thottbot has some fairly decent math on it, I really don't want to get into it since overlapping causes a mess, and it's late/early. Back when this first came out, I threw some numbers out which, while not completely accurate, showed that you basically needed a 25% proc rate on this ring to match a Ring of Spell Power. If it's actually 10%, then .. yeah, not better. And considering the immense hassle of the Logistics/Tactical/Combat/Field Duty quests, no one really bothers getting it. I did all 4 of the rewards quests, and while I am the proud owner of Might of Cenarius, Earthstrike, Grace of Air, and Gloves of Earthen Power ... I would not wish doing those quests on my enemies.

(initially wrong about MQG, sorry)MQG is amazingly good on short fights, Fire mages will essentially get a bit over 2 more spells off (9 in 20.25 seconds instead of 7 in 21 seconds, I don't feel like doing the math on this ;p) Frost mages will get a bit under 3 spells off (11 spells in 20.625 seconds instead of 8 in 20) But looking at a long fight and the cooldown, an extra 3 spells is rather insignificant compared to the 100 fireballs or 120 frost bolts cast.

http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=25906

It states exactly what it's proc rate is. And it sucks, very very much so.


On a side note has anyone ever used http://www.thottbot.com/?i=5928 and then taken it off? Does the buff stay!?!

There is an Arcane spec mage in my guild that uses the Wrath of Cenarius with AM (his primary nuke). I believe it has a 10% chance to proc off any one of the charges.

That Buff dissapears when you remove the trinket.

Yeah, the time/cost invested vs. return didn't seem worth it to me on the ring even at a cursory glance so it doesn't surprise me that the numbers bear that out. Those quests made me shudder and I only did a few of them.

Ugh, fuck the abbreviations in this thread.

MQG is?

Edit: Oh, mind quickening gem

MQG is all about the length of the fight. I believe that in BWL gear, it provides the greatest boost of any of the burst trinkets, if it's used twice in the fight with little extra time.

Talisman of Ascendence is the best burst trinket for PvE fireball spam in normal situations. One minute cooldown, works perfectly with Fireball.

Eye of the Beast is useful. There's this wierd time where it's the best trinket available, then one of the sub-par ones, then after gearing up to AQ40/Naxx levels it becomes the second best one (after Neltharion's Tear).

MQG is an excellent trinket for fights as such as Huhuran. (Mind Quickening Gem for Greybone, the Vael mage trinket.), where you need a lot of damage in a short time and mana isn't really an issue. Cooldown nets it limited use IMO and it requires a lot more mana to sustain than usual spamming, which limits it at other times.

I'm currently thinking which would be better for me in AQ 40. I'm inclined to think that my EotB is far superior to ToEP due to the nature of the fights, where often a part of the buff is just plain wasted. Then again, when I do get the chance to combust, the talisman adds a fair bit of hurt. I'm at ~ + 550 dmg with ~ 21 % fireball crit. (And 25 on Scorch/Fireblast.). I have Neltharion's in the other slot, so using both of em isn't handy. Huhuran is MQG for sure, that's a given for me.

And jumping in on the title of the topic, try the Mage DiM trinket on not that well designed trinkets. ;-)

Hmm wonder if Mind Quickening Gem will stack with Bloodlust.

Totally forgot the Talisman of Ascendance in all of that discussion. It intrigues me but like the ZHC I'm not certain that either is a worthy replacement for the Eye on a fire mage. With the Eye I'm at exactly 21% crit on fireballs and 25% on scorch/fireblast, as well.

TOA is by far better than ZHC. And in most cases its even better than ToEP, since you really can't get enough casts with ToEP!

40+80+120+160+200 = 600 dmg from ToA every 60sec. (lasts 20sec, it's easy to get even 5x untalented fireballs in 20sec)

While ToEP gives 15sec of +175, but because of lag you can't get 5 fireballs withing 15sec. It means that for fireball spam with ToEP gives 4x175dmg = 700dmg every 90s. So TOA is better sustained dmg with fireball. (600dmg / 60sec = 10dps vs. 700dmg / 90sec = 7.8dps)

For Frostbolts ToEP fares better, but looses still as you can only get 5x frostbolt with +175 = +875dmg every 90sec, while ToA still gives only 600dmg every 60sec for frostbolts. So while ToEP is usually much better in general calculations, ppl forget that you NEVER get 6x 2.5sec = 15sec worth of cast in 15sec activation time of ToEP. (actual damage should be multiplied with the 0.81x or whatever it is for frostbolt meaning that the difference is actually quite negligible.)

For Scorch ToEP wins hands down, as you get 9x 175dmg = +1575 dmg for scorch (multiplied by 1.5/3.5 = 675dmg more overall) and TOA still is just 600dmg over 60 seconds (so only 257 more dmg with TOA than without)

edit: spelling

Nelth's Tear + Eye of the Beast = best thing for a Fire Mage, period.

I have +698 fire damage, and 1% crit is about 15.9 damage per spell, so that's 31.8 damage with Eye of the Beast.

Nothing else is better, even ToA (which I have), MQG (which I use for Huhuran), ToEP (for PvP), ZHC (nerfed version is now much worse than ToEP), and Briarwood Reed (but not by much). I use Rune of the Dawn on anything Undead, because 48 damage > anything else.

http://ctprofiles.net/230215

I quote you the tooltip text on the ToA:

Note the "Expires after 6 damage or healing spells or 20 seconds". You get off a 6th fireball with an additional 200 +damage, as the first 5 build it up, and the 6th spend the last cast. This is still easily possible with lag, as 6*3secs = 18sec, and it lasts 20secs. With shadowbolt/frostbolt, you have 5secs to spare for lag. So ToA is 800 +damage per 60secs, or 1200 per 90secs, compared to 700 from ToEP...

Yes, I have it, I did the grind as I read the tooltip correctly. When I use it, I get 1 charge per shadowbolt I cast (you can see this easily both with SCT and from the buff you get), but the buff does not fade untill the 6th cast, or 20 secs. It's worth the grind ;-)

Something interesting about ToA that some people might not realised but that a mage (alt even) in my guild pointed out - the ToA gives 2 separate buffs, the first one is the 'ToA active' buff which lets you get the second buff, the stacking +40spell damage.

What this means is that you can ramp up to the +200 damage, then click it off, and start stacking the spell damage again without losing the 'ToA active' buff.

Obviously for this to work out as more +damage, you'd have to fire off 7 spells (for 40, 80, 120, 160, 40, 80, 120 damage respectively), but if you can manage that then you can eek out a bit more damage from it. Get 8 casts off and you make an extra 200 +spell damage.