Rating? - Page 5

Dulahey · 09/07/06, 7:21 PM

I'm guessing the decay is based on the item level.

14 crit rating on a lvl 60 item = 1% crit but only .3% crit at level 70.
14 crit rating on a lvl 70 item = 1% crit at level 70.

Or lvl 70 gear will simply have higher crit ratings.

Pater · 09/07/06, 7:43 PM

I think it's the latter Dulahey. I think it will be like the stat --> bonus calculation right now. A L60 mage gets 1% crit from 59.5 INT. At L70, that number will be higher.

In BC, a L60 mage will get 1% spell crit from (say) 50 "spell crti rating." A L70 mage will get need more to get the same 1% crit.

Eye of the Beast will always have 100 crit rating. It will just be more worthwhile for a L60 mage than a L70 mage.

Zeboim · 09/07/06, 7:58 PM

Originally Posted by Pater

I think it's the latter Dulahey. I think it will be like the stat --> bonus calculation right now. A L60 mage gets 1% crit from 59.5 INT. At L70, that number will be higher.

In BC, a L60 mage will get 1% spell crit from (say) 50 "spell crti rating." A L70 mage will get need more to get the same 1% crit.

Eye of the Beast will always have 100 crit rating. It will just be more worthwhile for a L60 mage than a L70 mage.

I dont think you understand what that means. If 100 crit rating is about 5% crit for level 60, then you will need 333 crit rating at level 70 to get the same 5% crit. Seems fine now, but at level 75, you can have 1,000,000 crit rating and you wont get any higher than 0% crit.

• Shalas · 09/07/06, 8:41 PM

Originally Posted by Dulahey

I'm guessing the decay is based on the item level.

14 crit rating on a lvl 60 item = 1% crit but only .3% crit at level 70.
14 crit rating on a lvl 70 item = 1% crit at level 70.

All that'd do is make current gear suck at level 70. It wouldn't actually fix the problem of crit getting stupidly high once you have level 70 gear.

Kytrarewn · 09/07/06, 9:30 PM

I'd bet anything it's based on target's level... it's going to suck if expansion mobs are still +3 or higher, but it makes more sense than nerfing a level 60 item when you're fighting level 60 mobs at level 62.

Hopefully they'll put in custom tooltips for your target (a la Diablo 2) whereby you see "Chance to Hit Thuzadin Necromancer: 98%" or something along those lines, rather than leaving it as the flat "chance to crit against mob of your level: 32%" they have now.

Nite_Moogle · 09/07/06, 9:40 PM

Originally Posted by Dulahey

I'm guessing the decay is based on the item level.

14 crit rating on a lvl 60 item = 1% crit but only .3% crit at level 70.
14 crit rating on a lvl 70 item = 1% crit at level 70.

Or lvl 70 gear will simply have higher crit ratings.

Chances are it'll be like AP where you need more of it to give a certain amount. Hunters don't need 53 agility to get 1% crit at level 1, the amount required scales up by level. 14 crit rating may be an effective 1% crit at level 60, but it may only be .75% crit at 70. I'll be incredibly surprised if it doesn't work in this fashion.

Kalman · 09/07/06, 10:57 PM

Expect 14 rating to scale to 0.5% at 70.

Zeboim · 09/08/06, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Kalman

Expect 14 rating to scale to 0.5% at 70.

So its an expoential? If thats so then each point of crit rating should give you

(64/14)*2^(-x/10) crit%

where x is your level

This model also fits with the observed reductions posted earlier where 1% crit at level 60 is

1% at 60
0.933 at 61
0.871 at 62
0.812 at 63
0.758 at 64

(it has a slight difference of 0.01% is some cases)

Mo · 09/08/06, 12:07 PM

A much simpler formula, though it doesn't fit the reported values quite as well, would just have it require one more point of crit rating per level. It does make 14 cr worth just a bit more than 0.5% at 70 though. It does somewhat make sense that it'd be a simpler calcuation since ap -> dps is so simple, and it fits pretty well.

14 / (14 + lvl - 60) crit%

1% at 60
0.933 at 61
0.875 at 62
0.824 at 63
0.778 at 64

0.583 at 70

No idea how this would work pre-60, which is a reasonable question about the crit rating system in general (though not nearly as important as how our 60 epics scale). Will bhb be worth 3 or 4% crit if someone gets it at 55? Anyway, my formula obviously doesn't work for pre-60 stuff.

Toabo · 09/08/06, 1:35 PM

Hmmm. So if all the +hit and +crit gear gets scaled down as you level, I assume that makes the +hit and +crit you get from talents more valuable since that will always stay the same? The +5% hit to Empowered Frostbolt doesn't seem nearly as useless now.

♦ Praetorian · 09/08/06, 2:14 PM

If you have a 30 agi ring right now, that 30 agi will give you less crit, less dodge, and less % mitigation worth of armor at level 70 than it does at level 60.

This change is simply standardizing that built-in scaling so it also applies to items with pure +crit or +dodge on them. If they didn't, then those stats would actually become more valuable if anything -- +1% crit is worth a larger number of points of agility at level 70 than at level 60.

Papajan · 09/08/06, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Jaerel

I suspect crit rating is just a distilled version of crit similar to how you gain crit from agility and intellect. In that context:

At level 60, your converted crit rating will give you 10% crit against level 60 targets.
That same crit rating will give you 9.2% crit against level 61 targets (using the numbers from the example).

At level 61, your converted crit rating will give you 10% crit against level 60 targets.
That same crit rating will give you 9.2% crit against level 61 targets.

I got the impression that crit/int is determined entirely on the caster side of things, irrespective of the target. It would be nice for farming to gain more power against lower level mobs, but terrible for fighting boss mobs.

I wonder if they compute it (for crit anyway) as something like (crit rating) * (int conversion) * 5 / (expected int). In other words, I wonder if the amount of crit per crit rating is in a fixed ratio with crit per int. Then in my head I can say that crit rating is like int without the mana and with a multiplier.

Karakas · 09/08/06, 3:34 PM

Originally Posted by Papajan

Originally Posted by Jaerel

I suspect crit rating is just a distilled version of crit similar to how you gain crit from agility and intellect. In that context:

At level 60, your converted crit rating will give you 10% crit against level 60 targets.
That same crit rating will give you 9.2% crit against level 61 targets (using the numbers from the example).

At level 61, your converted crit rating will give you 10% crit against level 60 targets.
That same crit rating will give you 9.2% crit against level 61 targets.

I got the impression that crit/int is determined entirely on the caster side of things, irrespective of the target. It would be nice for farming to gain more power against lower level mobs, but terrible for fighting boss mobs.

I wonder if they compute it (for crit anyway) as something like (crit rating) * (int conversion) * 5 / (expected int). In other words, I wonder if the amount of crit per crit rating is in a fixed ratio with crit per int. Then in my head I can say that crit rating is like int without the mana and with a multiplier.

Crit, at the moment at least, is also dependent on your target's level (and your weapon skill). As you level up, your chance to crit/hit on lower level mobs increase even if somehow you were able to adjust your stats so that they were exactly the same as a lower level

• Chicken · 09/08/06, 3:40 PM

Originally Posted by Karakas

Originally Posted by Papajan

I got the impression that crit/int is determined entirely on the caster side of things, irrespective of the target. It would be nice for farming to gain more power against lower level mobs, but terrible for fighting boss mobs.

I wonder if they compute it (for crit anyway) as something like (crit rating) * (int conversion) * 5 / (expected int). In other words, I wonder if the amount of crit per crit rating is in a fixed ratio with crit per int. Then in my head I can say that crit rating is like int without the mana and with a multiplier.

Crit, at the moment at least, is also dependent on your target's level (and your weapon skill). As you level up, your chance to crit/hit on lower level mobs increase even if somehow you were able to adjust your stats so that they were exactly the same as a lower level

Then again there's two possible reasons this could have:

A. This is because on lower level mobs your agility adds more crit in comparison.
B. This is because lower level mobs have a lower defense skill, and thus automattically a higher chance to get crit.

The difference is quite large between these two. If lower level mobs effectively need less agility to get an extra percent crit on, that'd bode well for how rating is going to work (As in, no weaker as you level up effect), if it doesn't that wouldn't bode well. ;)

Murr · 09/08/06, 4:01 PM

Basic idea behind crit rating:
Be able to itemize so you can ramp up crit and hit (and other percentages) at earlier levels without capping out endgame players. It also gives more flexibility in the item system when you can add half a crit instead of another full % point.

Blackhand's Breadth, going off the picture, is 28 Crit Rating. 2% crit at 60, by all accounts somewhere between 1-1.5% crit at 70 based off the math we've seen.

At 70, say you kill Rend Blackhand's Daddy in Outlandrock Spire, turn his head into Thrall, and you get Blackhand's Superbreadth, which is +40 crit rating. Same item concept but you've got a higher budget at 70 and can throw more rating on there. Works just like stats now - scales as you level.

Consider the item flexibility when you aren't just looking at choosing between an item with 30 ap, 1 crit, 1 hit and an item with 0 ap, 2 crit, 1 hit, and a scenario in the expansion when an item has 30 ap, 14 crit rating, 14 hit rating, and an item with 0 ap, 22 crit rating, 13 hit rating..etc.

Lots more potential for micro, if anything.