Don't forget that people just figured out that having attacks be dodged does very little to hinder your dps (see Sneak Attacks). Thus you don't *really* need that +6% hit on specials.

To answer your question to me specifically, disco...the best assumption is to not make one at all. The DPS values of crit, hit, and AP are changing all the time based on what gear you're using.

alright, well firstly, even with my skewed calculations, KoTS shows as being far superior to BhB, so any ebay'd rogue reading this thread about to do naxx would still go for the KoTS ;-) Secondly, i d/l'd the spreadsheet and for my gear, 1% hit is about .8% crit instead of the .6% i'd been valuing it at. Very interesting. I'll need to look through the formulas to figure out the why's of it. To me my very simple math above makes sense, so I'll enjoy finding the bits that I've been missing thus far. In this case, the theory/math is much more interesting than the actual value, so I'm pleased to have the chance to learn something new.

+1% crit is also not +1% dps, considering you already have around 30% or so crit.

Trinkets? DFT, HoJ are nice for pre-Naxx trinkets. Hand of Justice is rediculously nice for how easy it is to get.

haha @ the 0.06 dps, yeah, that'd look a bit odd ;-) This spreadsheet is so much to internalize. I'm guessing that a lot of it has to do with numerator/denominators that I'm not getting right in my head. Also, to Karakas, dont forget Lethality's 30% bonus on crits, and 4/8 Bonescythe's bonus help boost the value of crit.

Edit...
Okie, figured out what i was missing - the static value of weapon procs and poisons, since +hit and +crit doesnt affect them.

Interesting fact. When i nix the poisons/procs and put the numbers in the spreadsheet and look at the white damage compared to total damage, it's showing as 71% of damage is white damage. When I look at the marginal benefit of hit compared to crit, it's 69%. I'm feeling very comfortable in my initital assessement of saying that the benefit of %hit to %crit ~ your % of your dps that comes from white damage.

The slight difference is that each additional hit has another poison proc chance, where as a crit doesn't. Side note - since i'm mace spec'd, additional hits dont give me add'l chance at sword procs.

so.... between poisons/procs non-hit/crit-affected damage, and some yet-undetermined factor(s), I see that 1% crit is much more like .85% dps increase, and 1% hit is much more like .58% increase, given 70% of dps coming from white damage. So i was definitely off in the "absolute ratios." In terms of the "relative ratios", i'm pretty happy with the rule of thumb mentioned above.

Two things:
1) Everything is relative.
2) Stop assigning values to crit and hit. It *is* futile.

Lethality's 30% crit bonus means that at 30% crit, your marginal %dps benefit per %crit for yellow damage will be 1% dps (instead of 0.77%dps).

Lethality will not work for white dps, so you have the baseline 0.77%dps increase for white damage.

+hit, on the other hand, at +15% will net you +0%dps on yellow damage.

However, it will be a 1.12% increase in white damage.

Assuming, for simplicities sake, that white damage constitutes 65% of your total damage, and yellow is 35%:

1%dpsyellow * 0.35totalyellow + 0.77%dpswhite * 0.65totalwhite = 0.85%dps increase for 1% crit
0%dpsyellow * 0.35totalyellow + 1.12%dpswhite * 0.65totalwhite = 0.73%dps increase for 1% hit.

0.73/0.85 = 0.859

So 1%hit is worth roughly 0.859%crit at 15%hit and 30%crit.

(of course, these are all VERY VERY VERY rough estimates, but it should give a good idea of how good hit is)

I can't believe someone has to say this here but... +hit% doesn't affect dodge, it reduces your miss rate. These are two completely independent things. Dodges are innate to the roll table which is why Blizzard added a talent to reduce dodges on specials as itemization doesn't currently provide a means to do this.

So, yes, you DO want 6% or more +hit% as otherwise you will completely miss a special, which is different from having a special dodged.

What do folks think about using Renataki's for raiding?

Maybe I'm in the wrong but I find that using is (combat daggers) helps generate CPs fast and get SnD going earlier for longer, provides great burst for those situations when it's required (controllable burst also) and suits itself to wide variety of situations.

I'm not a math guru, but I've asked a math person in my guild and he came back with Renataki's as better than most other pre BWL trinkets as long as its use its maximized.

What do the math folks here think?

What he means is it is silly to say 1 crit is 10 points, 1 hit is 9 points. The values change as you get different gear. Now you can generalize to get a guess what it will do, but it isn't the best way to go about it.

For example, 1 crit at 35% crit is .74% white damage increase. So you aren't always correct in saying crit is .77% white dps increase. Things scale up and down with other changes (that is why spreadsheets are handy).

I think Renataki's is 60 energy every 300 seconds. It's 1 backstab every 5 minutes.

Compare that to Earthstrike, which will add 280 AP for 20 seconds (so 3-4 backstabs at boosted AP, plus 280 AP bonus to your white damage over that time frame) - every 2 minutes. Which is almost always macroed with Blade Flurry to boost that bonus, and typically once per fight is macroed with Adrenaline Rush as well.

Compare that to BHB. Model it as a 2% bonus backstab on every backstab, plus white damage bonuses (close enough to true for government work). The 2% per backstab, with 10 BS per minute, equals 50 BS per 5 minutes, equals 1 whole extra backstab - and we've ignored the white damage bonuses BHB provides.

Renataki's is just a poor trinket in anything but PvP - farm tea and wear useful trinkets instead.