WoW in the NY Times - Page 11

Farstrider · 09/06/06, 7:13 PM

Originally Posted by Krug

This doesn't make sense to me. To illustrate, in my family, my grandmother knits. I have no knowledge of how to do so, nor do I wish to learn. No one else in the family is interested either, instead of telling her to quit knitting because someone wants her to watch TV or go base jumping, we let her do her own thing, its her personal time. We don't consider her anti-social at all. :)

Difference here being that two people sitting in a front room knitting/watching TV/reading the papers/some combination of the above are able to interact between one another at the same time.

I truly wish I could sit in my study raiding and at the same time interact in a meaningful way with my girlfriend. Maybe some of you lucky chaps with incredible coordination are able to do so. Unfortunately for me any attempt to keep her occupied while I raid ends up with me struggling for conversation and ultimately letting my mouth hang open just as whatever encounter we're in gets hairy.

I think that's a realistic difference and one that ultimately differentiates between sharing various interactions between a small social group in the same location, and sharing a common interaction with a larger social group in contact via the internet. When you share your in-game experience with 39 other people it is by definition difficult to share anything with the people in the same room as you.

I'm not sure if that was deep or just rambling... apologies if it was rambling...

EDIT:- tidied up a line that used the word "difference" three times in 10 words!

Sunder · 09/06/06, 7:14 PM

I would agree with those saying the stigma attached to MMO's is mostly derived from the stigma attached to fantasy roleplaying than to online/video game stigma. I personally think it has alot to do with the fringe D&D people who used the game during the 70's and early 80's that made news all over the country and really gave RPG playing a bad name from then on. People don't think twice about someone playing Madden 07 online, or Halo 2 online. However, tell them you play an Orc Shaman online and their perception changes immediately. I also think it has alot to do with the old saying "we fear what we do not understand."

Eej · 09/06/06, 7:22 PM

I'm sure if you said that you played a SPARTAN or a Covenant Elite online, people will think strangely of you as well.

If you said "I play World of Warcraft online" I doubt their perception would change that much as compared to saying you play Halo 2.

Sunder · 09/06/06, 7:25 PM

Actually, I'd disagree on that. People by now know WoW is a roleplaying game. I'm going to bet the perception would change just the same. I think the content of the entertainment is what is causing the change in perception, not the label you put on it.

Taikero · 09/06/06, 7:28 PM

When you say "WoW" or "World of Warcraft", it gets lumped into the same category as Everquest and SW:G.

Remember that show "The New Guy"?.....They made fun of Everquest in that movie. A lot.

Everyone thinks MMORPGs are anti-social, nerdy, and in general to be avoided if you don't want to be viewed as weird or an anomaly.

Eej · 09/06/06, 7:29 PM

Final Fantasy is a roleplaying game and no one thinks oddly of you when you say you play it. WoW is pretty mainstream nowadays, lots of people from all walks of life play it. Remember the big hubbub about Dave Chapelle talking about playing it?

Anyways, my post was more a critique of how you worded your example. Of course people will look at you oddly when you say something that they have little to no clue about. Just because someone knows what Halo 2 is, doesn't mean that they're going to understand you when you say you're a damn good Ghost pilot.

Quigon · 09/06/06, 7:31 PM

Originally Posted by Eej

Final Fantasy is a roleplaying game and no one thinks oddly of you when you say you play it. WoW is pretty mainstream nowadays, lots of people from all walks of life play it. Remember the big hubbub about Dave Chapelle talking about playing it?

Anyways, my post was more a critique of how you worded your example. Of course people will look at you oddly when you say something that they have little to no clue about. Just because someone knows what Halo 2 is, doesn't mean that they're going to understand you when you say you're a damn good Ghost pilot.

MMORPGS are 70.1% to public humiliation. Very few things are more damning to admit to in real life.

http://www.thewavemag.com/pagegen.ph...rticleid=24184

Drauk · 09/06/06, 7:33 PM

Originally Posted by Taikero

Remember that show "The New Guy"?.....They made fun of Everquest in that movie. A lot.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0241760/

This movie ? Haven't seen it, but if it mentions EQ, i consider watching it :)

OzX · 09/06/06, 7:34 PM

Originally Posted by Kalman

Well, I brought it in via the non-stigmatized sports video game, which brings in the generic societal valuation of sports.

It isn't just activities associated with physical danger that are accepted, and it isn't solely due to the interaction being online that MMOs are stigmatized, though. Look at the popularization of poker as a form of entertainment, both to be watched and played, over the past couple years. Poker games online are *not* stigmatized in the same way at all - while they bear the social marks of gambling, within reason they're quite acceptable in society, despite being essentially an online activity.

I'm not at all sure that it's a "anything they don't do", either. I know, much like Lokoki mentioned, that I'd have qualms explaining to someone about killing Kel'thuzad, but I'm happy to explain to anyone about my hobby of exploring abandoned buildings to take pictures of them (which is certainly not something everyone does.) And I don't particularly get odd looks for that one, either. I really do feel the social stigma in the US attaches specifically to the idea of fantasy and roleplaying.

In what may be my final post I'd like to say...

I don't think the fantasy stigma is as bad as strong as some of you perceive it to be. I've never felt the need to hide the habit and I got more dirty looks for coming to work with a bloodshot eye from boxing than explaining what an MMO is.

What's the difference between people jokingly asking me when I'm going to fight on ESPN vs. jokingly asking the MMO player (or me for that matter) how many dragons he killed over the weekend? Apparently, the difference is the MMO person would take the joke to heart and feel ostracized/made fun of while I'd say "Next Friday!" and "No dragons, just Ragnaros the Firelord." and laugh with them instead of feeling laughed at.

Perhaps if more people were willing to speak freely about such things it wouldn't seem so odd. If you treat something like a dirty secret can you really expect other people not to see it that way?

I don't really think fantasy/roleplaying is the problem even, rather for hardcore players it's the time involved. It's one thing to talk about your hobby and another to admit that you spend over 5 or more hours or more per day on it nearly every day. People might start making connections between your punctuality problem or "sick" days and the hobby or just plain find it extreme. I imagine someone spending that much with online poker, flag football or exploring abondoned buildings without a professional internest/direction in it would be considered just as odd.

Sunder · 09/06/06, 7:42 PM

Originally Posted by Eej

Final Fantasy is a roleplaying game and no one thinks oddly of you when you say you play it. WoW is pretty mainstream nowadays, lots of people from all walks of life play it. Remember the big hubbub about Dave Chapelle talking about playing it?

They may be mainstream to the gaming community, but they are hardly mainstream to society at large. You have to remember that gaming in itself is hardly a mainstream activity. Video gameing in general is considered a fairly fringe activity by society at large. It is just certain parts of it are given a pass for one reason or another. I do not believe any of the RPG games currently enjoy such tolerance.

Anyways, my post was more a critique of how you worded your example. Of course people will look at you oddly when you say something that they have little to no clue about. Just because someone knows what Halo 2 is, doesn't mean that they're going to understand you when you say you're a damn good Ghost pilot.

And I'm telling you it doesn't matter how I word it. If you tell your boss you play World of Warcraft tomorrow and he is not a gamer, he is going to look at you strangely. Even more strangely after he asks what that is and you explain it to him (or her, as the case may be ;)).

Lokoki · 09/06/06, 7:47 PM

I wonder how my boss would react if I told him that I have the most DKP in my guild, and I'll win the next Widow's Embrace that drops. ;)

P.S. I'm a commercial real estate appraiser.

saramin · 09/06/06, 7:50 PM

Originally Posted by Lokoki

P.S. I'm a commercial real estate appraiser.

You'd deserve whatever physical violence would ensue, obviously.

probiscus · 09/06/06, 7:53 PM

Originally Posted by Lokoki

P.S. I'm a commercial real estate appraiser.

Commercial/MF real estate underwriter here. Heh.

Eej · 09/06/06, 7:58 PM

Maybe it's because I'm still in university and I'm just missing out on what you're saying, Sunder, due to a difference in generations, but I'm pretty sure most of my peers play or have played video games to a certain extent. In that case, gaming would be a rather mainstream activity, wouldn't it?

Sunder · 09/06/06, 8:01 PM

From what I remember of my college days, very little that goes on there could be classified as mainstream. :P