Disposition

Too bad there would be loads of whining from casual players when they are getting 5k shadowbolts to the face. Ohh well, one can dream. ><

 

Kavan

One reason why the flat level based partial resists (or whatever you call them) are indeed resistance based lies in the fact that bosses had those same partial resists before 1.9 (at the same rate, 8/level diff). Except at that time spell penetration was able to counter it (at the time curses were the only spell penetration mechanic) and now it cannot. As far as I'm concerned it's a flat out bug in code for non-binary spells.

 

Gumibear

Not only were negative resists fun, they gave us significantly more damage than CoS and CoE do currently, if what has been said in this thread is true.

When the change was announced, CMs told us that the new CoS and CoE mechanics would be a DPS buff on encounters where mobs had more than 75 resists. So far, people are saying boss mobs don't have the resists needed to make CoS and CoE in their current state better damage than they were before the nerf.

I really miss those negative resists. Back before the nerf, my best crit was 3999 and I didn't have Ruin then. I'm pretty sure now I could crit raid bosses for 7k if negative resists still existed. I'm sure the fire mages would appreciate it too.

 

• Navaash

Wow. Soulseeker (the Kel'Thuzad staff) still has the -25 resists on it.

Unjustifiable.

 

Soul

Actually, it's a little more complicated than that. I remember getting vulnerability bonuses AND partial resists resulting in odd messages like "Your Fireball hits Magmadar for 1377 (+153 vulnerable)". The level-based partial resist is something that's really quite strange and apart from normal resist mechanics.

Well, -75 resists adds a bonus of 75/400 = 18.75% to your spells on average in large, unpredictable chunks. Everybody knew that the flattening out of CoS/CoE was a nerf to everyone except Frost Mages.

 

Gumibear

The explanation CMs gave never sat well with me, but until recently when my spell hit gear has greatly increased and the number of active Warlocks in my guild has gone from 6 to 3 forcing me to sometimes go without CoS, I didn't really have much actual proof. What bothers me is Blizzard tried to sell it to us as a buff, and enough people believed it. Why isn't there a general uproar in the caster community about this useless -resist stat being forced upon us? Our itemization could be so much better.

 

Desemus

With CoE (-75), Arcane Subtlety (-10), Don Rodigos (-20), and FF Bracers (-10) I do notice a fair amount of nasty partials on Patchwerk and Heigan. (750 Pyro lolz) I wouldn't say -resist is completely worthless, that annoying that it could be a huge damage boost but only on a few bosses. Call it antecdotle evidence without a spreadsheet bed, but more then one 75% partial irks me :(

 

Kavan

What part of this is partial resist? This is a standard message from a vulnerable mob (i.e. COE pre 1.9).

 

Soul

Well, you can only normally resist or get vulnerabilties in increments of 25%, but this is a vulnerability of 12.5%. This means that Magmadar simultaneously partially resisted the Fireball and was vulnerable to it.

 

Kavan

I think you have this confused with crit messages. When you get vulnerability on crit the vulnerability will display the non-crit value, but the actual crit applies to both (base and vulnerability). That's why you can see those off percents. It's similar with other multipliers like Chromaggus or Ossirian.

 

Soul

It was a hit on Magmadar. If that were a crit, it would be weirder still (20%? Huh?). If you feel up to experimenting, you could perhaps drop some Blizzards on, say, Baron Geddon (he still has negative Frost resist, right?) and parse the combat log. I'm pretty sure you'll get some odd results out of it.

 

Maledict

Please, please, for the love of god, stop posting these messages in a useful thread.

If patchwerk and Heigan have over 115 resists to spells, do you not think it would have been noticed on day one of the fight? It's not like something you can just "miss", especially given the values you are talking about. Unless you have actually *parsed* the resists, over several weeks, on the same mob, with some other mages, then your anecdotal evidence is pointless.

Sorry for being grumpy, but we're not supposed to just post "feelings" according to the forum guidelines, and this issue is complicated and difficult enough already without every so often people saying quoting random gut emotions without evidence.

(Also please note, the 5% resist rate on non-binary spells makes no difference between a 25% partial resists and a 75% partial resist. It's random which one you get as far as anyone can tell. And in a fight like Patchwerk, you should mathematically be seeing at least two 75% resists, and probably a lot more.)

 

TheOnly

It has a wonderful use in PvE. Get yourself mind controlled and kill your friends more easily (who probably have some resistances, at least MoTW).

 

TheOnly

It is for a frost mage, since the 24 'level based' resist can be countered for binary spells.

Its only a bug for non-binary spells.

 

TheOnly

This discussion is about the fact that wihout your - resist gear (and for patch, even without CoE) you would get the exact same ammount of partial resists.

There is 8 resistance per level higher than you that curses and gear cannot remove. Put 120 -resist gear on and you would STILL get the same partial resist rate on patchy.

 

• frmorrison

Are you sure about that and/or have some parsing done that shows that spell pen helps a frost Mage?

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Ozymandias

You're misinterpreting; he's stating the exact opposite. The counter-argument (or explaination rather) as to why he is incorrect is the post above yours.

Edit - Oh and he needs a profile.

 

Pendragon

Probably a mostly PVP mechanic that was just thrown on the later tiers because Bliz knew people would be using at least some set stuff even in PVP. At the time the -spell resist came out I was raiding MC and on a comparable basis to +damage it was well worth putting on for mobs like Gehennas and Shazzrah but nothing else. However, they dont seem to have continued with that trend of mob.

One thing to remember is prior to the time this stuff was made there was a huge uproar in the Mage forum about players in PVP pretty much stomping any fire mage due to the huge Fire resists many people were equipped even on their 'usual' gear set for MC, Ony, and parts of BWL. It was not uncommon for most players to be coming into BG's with anywhere from 50-120 FR. Warriors with their FR gear which was still somewhat competitive equipment at the time were a major headache. Once a player's resist gets so high, you are not going to be able to overcome it with simply piling +damage. Especially, if you imagine a mage vs a demonology spec warlock with Felhunter you are talking about -spell resist becoming many many more times valuable than +damage.

The strange thing is that IIRC the spell resist stuff came out right at the same time as the nerf to negative resists for the curses. Obviously, stacking those two things would have made negative crits and all the like insane, but they had to know that preventing negative resist would also simultaneously make the -spell resist stuff nigh useless in raiding since the curses were going to knock just about any mob down to 0, and as mentioned anything with more absurd resist rates would not be worth casting that type of magic at no matter what -modifier you had.

 

Maledict

Erm, incorrect. There is no level based resist for binary spells beyond the standard 17% resist rate, which isn't affected by - to spell resists at all. The 5% partial resist rate on non-binary spells simply doesn't appear on frost spells in any form - parse a lot of level 63 fights, and you'll find your frostbolt definitely matches up with your + to hit gear. , and - to resists has no effect on that.

It's a further indication that the 5% partial resist rate is something strange, and that Blizzard really needs to look again at - to resists and it's place in the game.

 

Ivriniel

Just ignore the gear with spell penetration on it, there's better anyway :P

I still don't know why any mage would use more than maybe 3 tier3 parts anyhow.

 

Gauss

Lots of stats. The 6 piece will be good once TBC hits, also.

Noobing it up on Mal'Ganis since '06

 

TL-Seria

I think the innate partial resist change came as a stealth nerf with 1.9, so it's quite unlikely you've seen both modifiers together.

 

snape

If you want to have fun as a mage or warlock with vulnerable mobs, go kill the Tar Beasts and Lurkers in Un'Goro Crater. You need no curse or anything, just straight up use Fire Spells, and you will get vulnerability bonuses across the board.