Moving the talents hurts the other trees more, unless there are skills further down which end up as the equivalent of 30% crit damage for DPS, which so far haven't been faked. 30% crit damage is a huge chunk of DPS which would need to be made up to make the other trees viable, in much the same way that 6 extra yards is a huge chunk of Survivabilty, and Aimed shot is such a good spell, at 11 talent points not 7 btw, that it is, currently, required for doing damage.
Edit:
And if the talents are changed in some other way it's an even larger nerf then the AP ratio beating we're apparently going to be taking.
It's going to take a lot more than 10% crit to make up for the 500 RAP loss.
I'll go out on a limb and say that believing that they'll increase ranged weapon dps by a flat amount (10 was mentioned) is pretty stupid, which is apparently what you are basing this upon. It's going to scale by item level, or your newbie hunters are going to pack an 11 DPS weapon at level 1 when everyone else has a 2 DPS or worse weapon. That's just absurd, you can't even get 10 DPS two handed weapons until after level 10. By comparison a BWL-equipped hunter loses approximately 400-500 AP or 25-35 dps depending on spec, the flat 10 DPS addition is not going to make that up even with the crit adjustment and hunters don't need an overall DPS nerf. You're going to see the higher ilvl items get more base damage added on to them (I would approximate an increase of .4-.5 DPS per ilvl). The lowering of the amount of agility needed to get 1% crit is a tradeoff since agility has become less efficient in the item budget than raw AP for a hunter. I would be terribly surprised to see any sort of major variation between pre-TBC and post-TBC damage.
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.
The numbers I've been quoted about the dps difference of Rhok'delar and Larvae in the Alpha basically stated them as having 9-10 more dps than they do in the expansion. Seeing as Ashjre'thul is pretty much slotted right in between the two, it's safe to assume that it would receive something of a 10 DPS boost even if the ranged weapon DPS boost was based on ilvl. So with this 10 DPS boost on top of Ashjre'thul, I would still need something to maintain the amount of DPS I can put out at the moment. Thus, there will have to be radical change in Hunter itemization as well as talents to keep increasing damage, as opposed to trying to regain the damage you lost when expansion hit.
I'll go out on a limb and say that believing that they'll increase ranged weapon dps by a flat amount (10 was mentioned) is pretty stupid, which is apparently what you are basing this upon. It's going to scale by item level, or your newbie hunters are going to pack an 11 DPS weapon at level 1 when everyone else has a 2 DPS or worse weapon. That's just absurd, you can't even get 10 DPS two handed weapons until after level 10. By comparison a BWL-equipped hunter loses approximately 400-500 AP or 25-35 dps depending on spec, the flat 10 DPS addition is not going to make that up even with the crit adjustment and hunters don't need an overall DPS nerf. You're going to see the higher ilvl items get more base damage added on to them (I would approximate an increase of .4-.5 DPS per ilvl). The lowering of the amount of agility needed to get 1% crit is a tradeoff since agility has become less efficient in the item budget than raw AP for a hunter. I would be terribly surprised to see any sort of major variation between pre-TBC and post-TBC damage.
Bloodseeker gained 8 dps. Xbow gained 10.
It's not a flat amount, but it's pretty damn close.
Currently, there is a huge variation between pre-TBC and post-TBC damage output, but there are other factors as well (quivers not working properly is one I've heard.)
BTW, I've also heard traps are now castable in combat in the alpha. There's clearly a lot of changes in the pipeline for hunters.
a) Currently, there is a huge variation between pre-TBC and post-TBC damage output, but there are other factors as well (quivers not working properly is one I've heard.)
a) yeah I heard that too, it'll be fixed though, or we're just out of luck
b) if thats by ilvl then we can figure out how it scales if we get a few more data points, though if I remember right the DPS equations for melee weapons are horrendous exponential things of math brain explosion death. But hey, 2 points make a line so here's a shot:
First of all, hunters are getting a massive overhaul, which hopefully will be good... eventually. I can see that they're trying to make our gear esp. the ranged weapon actually usefull to upgrade, and I applaud that goal.
Unfortunately, it's going to be pretty damn painful.
I've seen 1 agi:1 rap, and 33 agi : 1 crit mentioned. My current crit:agi:rap ratios are:
1 crit : 12 agi : 31 rap
Under the new regime:
12 agi = crit component + rap component = 12/33*31 + 12 = 23.3
Note that 1 crit won't actually be worth 31 rap anymore, but it gets the idea across.
Yikes... I've got this nice cloak off C'tun thats now barely better than my blue cloak from strat. All pure Agi items have been considered primarily hunter, and I've got a few too many :)
Additionally, leaked items indicate the item formulas now allow agi/crit items. This basically means most hunter epix are trash compared to blues in the expac.
Whooo there's going to be much wailing and gnashing of teeth over that I bet! Excuse me while I go on vacation away from the Internet for a couple weeks, hopefully I'll miss most of it!
Oh btw, there's no official response to the AP=bug? questions on alpha forums. It might just be that, a bug. As I said earlier, quivers don't work either. Hunters are pretty broken, it might or might not be intended, will have to wait until they patch talents and stuff to find out for sure.
First of all, hunters are getting a massive overhaul, which hopefully will be good... eventually. I can see that they're trying to make our gear esp. the ranged weapon actually usefull to upgrade, and I applaud that goal.
Unfortunately, it's going to be pretty damn painful.
I've seen 1 agi:1 rap, and 33 agi : 1 crit mentioned. My current crit:agi:rap ratios are:
1 crit : 12 agi : 31 rap
Under the new regime:
12 agi = crit component + rap component = 12/33*31 + 12 = 23.3
Note that 1 crit won't actually be worth 31 rap anymore, but it gets the idea across.
Yikes... I've got this nice cloak off C'tun thats now barely better than my blue cloak from strat. All pure Agi items have been considered primarily hunter, and I've got a few too many :)
Additionally, leaked items indicate the item formulas now allow agi/crit items. This basically means most hunter epix are trash compared to blues in the expac.
Whooo there's going to be much wailing and gnashing of teeth over that I bet! Excuse me while I go on vacation away from the Internet for a couple weeks, hopefully I'll miss most of it!
Hopefully Blizzard will have the foresight to redesign T1/2/3 and various hunter non-set epics to compensate. From what I have heard, our ranged weapons are getting a roughly 10dps boost, so it wouldn't be without precedent.
Originally Posted by masanbol
It probably shouldn't surprise me that the first applications of one of the coolest creature designers ever made is going to be cockmonsters and titwalkers.
Originally Posted by Zyla
I mean christ, cunnilingus is much like being a resto shaman, you spam the button and let it do the work. So long as you change targets as appropriate you don't need to put any thought into it.
I'll go out on a limb and say that believing that they'll increase ranged weapon dps by a flat amount (10 was mentioned) is pretty stupid, which is apparently what you are basing this upon. It's going to scale by item level, or your newbie hunters are going to pack an 11 DPS weapon at level 1 when everyone else has a 2 DPS or worse weapon. That's just absurd, you can't even get 10 DPS two handed weapons until after level 10. By comparison a BWL-equipped hunter loses approximately 400-500 AP or 25-35 dps depending on spec, the flat 10 DPS addition is not going to make that up even with the crit adjustment and hunters don't need an overall DPS nerf. You're going to see the higher ilvl items get more base damage added on to them (I would approximate an increase of .4-.5 DPS per ilvl). The lowering of the amount of agility needed to get 1% crit is a tradeoff since agility has become less efficient in the item budget than raw AP for a hunter. I would be terribly surprised to see any sort of major variation between pre-TBC and post-TBC damage.
Bloodseeker gained 8 dps. Xbow gained 10.
It's not a flat amount, but it's pretty damn close.
Currently, there is a huge variation between pre-TBC and post-TBC damage output, but there are other factors as well (quivers not working properly is one I've heard.)
BTW, I've also heard traps are now castable in combat in the alpha. There's clearly a lot of changes in the pipeline for hunters.
Maybe that's where that screenshot of traps with 2 second casttime I saw somewhere came from. Castable in combat, but you still gotta predict it or the opponent is gonna interrupt you. I like that as a balancing act I must say, especially as a warrior.
Oh btw, there's no official response to the AP=bug? questions on alpha forums. It might just be that, a bug. As I said earlier, quivers don't work either. Hunters are pretty broken, it might or might not be intended, will have to wait until they patch talents and stuff to find out for sure.
We wouldn't be that lucky. Blizzard has been pretty clueless about Hunters all along. I wouldn't be surprised if this is their way of nerfing LR and buffing TSA all at the same time (and you gotta admit, it does that pretty well).
I expect that, if it IS an intentional change, Blizzard has something in mind to make up for it in the new skills/talents. I also expect that it won't work out like they think it will. But, I've been beating my head against that particular wall for long enough that I barely notice the pain any more.
Honestly, I wish Blizzard would give up trying to wedge us into the pure DPS spectrum and would open up some utility to us. There's all kinds of things Hunters could be used for that lie sadly on the roadside. Especially with pets - if they shared even a fraction of our gear and got some sort of area effect spell dodge (or plain immunity - it worked fine in EQ didn't it?), pets would increase the value of the hunter class noticeably.
Oh well. I'm still getting the xpack either way, so it's just wait and see and cope.
Has there been any information released on new arrows? I would imagine that there would be a new vendor bought type at level 70, or at least new engineering bullets that might push it up to 25~30 dps ammunition. But that's just my assumption of course.
Maybe that's where that screenshot of traps with 2 second casttime I saw somewhere came from. Castable in combat, but you still gotta predict it or the opponent is gonna interrupt you. I like that as a balancing act I must say, especially as a warrior.
I really like this too. The FD/Trap instant CC thing always felt a bit cheesy to me, to the point where I avoid using it unless I'm gonna die otherwise. Having our CC work the same way other classes do (interruptible) feels a lot better to me.
This ALSO means that hunters have the ability to chain-CC in PvE encounters now the same way that warlocks and mages do. If they leave the trap cooldowns the way they are, you'll usually be able to drop a second trap before the first one breaks, and keep something CC'd as long as you need to. This is something I always felt as a big lack in hunter utility, and I'm excited to see that it's being looked at this way. It's elegant in PvP too, because while you have the option of chain-trapping someone, you can't really do much damage to them while you're doing so, especially if they put in Diminishing Returns for Freezing Trap.
I hate to bring up the "my friend saw this" act, but the cast in combat is real currently in the beta. Traps are still instacast, but all have a 30 sec cooldown now.
This ALSO means that hunters have the ability to chain-CC in PvE encounters now the same way that warlocks and mages do. If they leave the trap cooldowns the way they are, you'll usually be able to drop a second trap before the first one breaks, and keep something CC'd as long as you need to. This is something I always felt as a big lack in hunter utility.
I agree that more utilty is nice, but Hunters can currently dual trap a mob. Someone else gets aggro on the mob, then you pull it to the trap with distracting shot, FD and retrap.
Now with the trap in combat, you don't need to Feign or use that fancy aggro shot. I like the change.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
I like how the BG rewards look like you get new versions at 60... Maybe I should finish the AB/WSG on my paladin.
The rewards linked are for level 68/70. The current 60 rewards will be unchanged (except the rating part).
It is nice that a causal player can get a 84 dps 2Hand weapon (just have to level to 70), and get an upgrade for their leg slot if they can get Exalted @70.
Anther good result is new players or rerolled players will have a reason to use the current BGs, getting more use out of that old content.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Someone run those items through the itemization calculations (I'm not in the mood to play with lots of numbers atm) and figure out if they've changed the Stat value of Stamina as compared to Greens/Blues! 8o
The rewards linked are for level 68/70. The current 60 rewards will be unchanged (except the rating part).
It is nice that a causal player can get a 84 dps 2Hand weapon (just have to level to 70), and get an upgrade for their leg slot if they can get Exalted @70.
Anther good result is new players or rerolled players will have a reason to use the current BGs, getting more use out of that old content.
http://www.wowguru.com/gallery/files/bgepicjpg-id1618/
It seems that purples have too much stats.
The stats are indeed all over the place.
Assuming 14 Crit Rating = 1% Crit, 10 Hit Rating = 1% Hit, 2 Defense Rating = 1 Defense (pulled from hat, anyone got numbers for Defense Rating?) and Stamina Statmod of 50% of the old one, you get:
TUF - iLvl based on DPS: 83, iLvl based on stats: 87 (iLvl based on stats with the old Stamina Statmod: ~106)
Sentinel's Plate Legguards - Armor iLvl: 81, stats iLvl: 94
Breastplate of the Righteous - Armor iLvl: 66, stats iLvl: 75
Don Julio's Band - stats iLvl: 118
Ring of Corruption - stats iLvl: 86
Lorekeeper's Ring - stats iLvl: 81
http://www.wowguru.com/gallery/files/bgepicjpg-id1618/
It seems that purples have too much stats.
The stats are indeed all over the place.
Assuming 14 Crit Rating = 1% Crit, 10 Hit Rating = 1% Hit
Those are the conversions at level 60 (Rhok has 14 crit rating). You'll need more crit rating as you level, and all of those items are marked level 70.
Those are the conversions at level 60 (Rhok has 14 crit rating). You'll need more crit rating as you level, and all of those items are marked level 70.
Those conversions are for item budgets. No need to worry about how the Ratings actually scale, only thing that's needed is to know how expensive Crit Rating is in the itemization formula.
09/08/06, 5:54 PM
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