Ive been hearing reports of new consumables (from another thread on these forums), new flasks, new pots, and I was wondering if anyone else was a little worried by this all.

Naxx has shown that the current level of consumable power is probably too high; a fully buffed raid group in tier1 is probably close or beyond the capabilities of a full tier 3 raid not using consumables. The idea of new and more powerful consumables just makes my brain shriek at the idea of farming beyond even those levels required by Naxx. How are other people reacting the the items being leaked/released form the expansion ?

I think it makes a lot of sense. These encounters are most certainly doable with say only flask of the titans and maybe one head buff, yet going for overkill can help 'guarentee' a 10% try becomes a loot sack.

Something like a flask is basicly Mark or the Wild/Prayer of Fortitude but with a high material cost and more limited application. The only downside to these consumables in my eyes is that alchemists are going to be filthy rich :)

However, no matter how many consumables you have at, say, C'thun, if you haven't had him on stage 2 3-4 times you're wasting them as not everyone in the raid will be 100% sure what to do.

Personally, I dont see how Loatheb is possible without SPP's, and therefore I think we have proof of consumables need in current fights. Whether Blizzard thinks this is a good thing or a bad thing (they seem to hate inflation so less money in circulation the better), there is at least a basis on it going forward.

I wouldn't think that the use of consumables would remove money from circulation. It just takes money from guild-banks & raiders and gives it to herbalists and goldfarmers who have picked up on the value of herbing.

Not using consumables can result in wiping more on new and difficult encoutners. This means more repairbills, which does remove money from circulation.

I'm terrified at the idea of more consumables. We raid Mon-Thurs and on Sunday evenings. Outside of that, I really don't have a lot of time to farm. We've been okay going through AQ40 (one shot our second Emps kill this week), but honestly I might be crippled going into Naxx by the consumable requirements.

I wish there was a way to limit consumable use, similar to how currently many do not stack (a lot of elixirs don't stack, thorns / fireshield / crystal spire don't stack, fewer food buffs stack now, etc). You can choose your favorite consumables, and flask when needed, but you can't put on like 20 of 'em.

We don't know how else they're implementing them. If they put a cap on the number of consumables you can have at once, while simultaneously improving diversity and quality of consumables, then that's a good change. If they just give us ten new things we need to have in order to remain competitive, that's not.

Agreed... although I kind of miss the days of MC where you could fund your guild off of BoE's... Rather than make guilds self sufficient, there has to be a way to make the economy more cyclical where raiding guilds can collect stuff to sell that's actually useable by non-raiders to make money which they use in turn to buy the consumable stuff that the enterprising non-raiders are selling to raiders so they can buy raid generated BoE's...

I'd love to see some real metrics but it just feels like all the money guilds made in MC and even in BWL (since the bosses are actually profitable once you are comfortable with the zone) has just been dwindling away to repair bills and off to non-raiders that are selling herbs and such (cgf's or otherwise). And since those non-raiders have less things to spend money on, that money is probably just sitting around which may not be helping Blizzard's view of how effective their money sinks are working.

I'm pretty worried about consumables in the expansion. I reactivated my WoW account after almost fifteen months of inactivity due to TBC. I want to take a few months to prepare for leveling a paladin to 70 and get WoW back into my normal schedule.

If consumable use in TBC for high level raiding steps up beyond what exists in Naxx, I'll probably just pvp for a bit and then go back to another MMO or console gaming.

I love WoW and I think it is an excellent game, but I don't dig the idea of having to farm six hours a day or do head quests to have a reliable chance at downing certain bosses.

Consumables should be part of the game. They allow for short-term character customization to help overcome specific challenges, but when raids are stacking characters with every consumable that matters for that class, I think it has gone too far.

It really seems like the best solution is to limit the raw number of consumable effects you can have on you at any given time. That and giving raids more access to consumable materials through rewards in instances or through herb garden-type fixtures in guild halls.

The whole idea of, "more consumable use removes money from the economy," is flawed, because it doesn't remove money from the economy, minus buying the vials you need to purchase, which cost a pittance compared to the price of herbs on auction. All that's really happening is money changing hands. All adding several new consumables, without restrictions, will do is cause a faster transfer of funds from raiding guilds to gatherers.

There already exists a restriction on flasks, so it seems natural that there could also be a restriction on less potent drinks and other types of consumables (such as the runes blacksmiths will be able to make).

Something like:

1 Flask
1 Food or drink buff
2 Armor buffs (one chest, one shield)
2 Weapon buffs (one per weapon)
2 Elixirs
3 Potions

Would probably go a long way towards evening things out. It would also free up the developers to create a much more diverse array of consumable items. Of course, we could then run into the problem of needing potions X, Y and Z for fight one, while turning around to need potions A, B, C for fight two.

I'm going to wait and see. TBC has me really excited for several reasons, but seeing the new flasks and consumables raises some red flags.

Consumables will need to change in the expansion. It's already reached a ridiculous point.

Buff limits need to be instituted as well.

There is a buff limit, but with 1.12.1 enchants will no longer count as buffs, so there is room for 32 (more buffs will be possible).

Edit: Sockets may take up buffs slots like enchants do now.

I don't see consumables changing much, but with the dungeon difficulty levels (at least on the leveling dungeons) you can set the dungeon to normal and not need them, but at hardest level you may need consumables (but get better items from bosses).

At least Alchemy will have specialize areas (makes more pots sometimes or more transmutes), so the supply may be a little better.

They should really implement a consumable rating system, and there should be a cap to that system, IE Flasks are 100, Elixirs are 75, and you only get a 150 point cap.

It's definitely possible. Our first kill was with zero world buffs. Just standard consumables. And it came after three wipes in the single digits. If the only benefit to using world buffs was saving 40 GSPPs, we wouldn't bother. The benefit is in making it a sure thing without raid-stacking. Sure, if we brought 7 fury warriors and fire mages, we could drop Loatheb without world buffs and it'd be fine. But we don't have that onhand normally, and the idea of gambling with 80-120 GSPPs, a raid full of DPS buffs, and so forth, is simply not palatable.

But yes, it's kind of dumb that we have a weekly buff routine where we clear ZG and BWL in order to get a head and heart, and have someone's alt get a Rend head, so that we can smoothly do Loatheb the following week. And we're hardly undergeared. We've got a raid full of people with 4pc and 6pc t3 bonuses, every rogue and warrior has C'Thun or Naxx-quality weaponry, etc.

Looking at the new potions, Rob Pardo's keynote posted elsewhere here, and Naxx design, I think hard core raiding is going to require more and more consumables.

Not a trend I like. Accessibility is one of the keys success for WoW, and I don't want raiding to be harder for me, or for any new people we gotta recruit for the mighty task...

I don't mind Wizard oil, arcane elixirs, the dozens of superior mana potions I use and the like. Hell, even Greater Frost/Fire/Nature Protection Potions are easy for me to stockpile, but Shadow is just downright stupid. If herb patches give more herbs (and for fucks sake, lessen Dreamfoil) and none of the standard raid pots are as dumb as GSPPs in BC then I won't mind too much.

I think the killer potions right now are mana and Greater XXX Protection. DPS and mana regen (Mana Oil, Mageblood) consumables are useful. I know however, from experience, that improving my gear and my knowledge of the encounter makes me less reliant on them. I remember using DPS potions for most road-block encounters from Ragnaros to C'Thun. But as my and the raid's experience with the mob increased, we needed the potions less and less. Gear upgrades also closed the gap on potions. If a Rogue picks up 2% crit from a couple upgrades, then they can downgrade from Mongoose to Agility.

But gear upgrades can never close the gap on the protection potions or mana potions. So for the two current fights where they are required (Patchwerk and Loatheb) there's very much a sense of requiring consumables. And because of the investment in those potions on those fights, everyone else in the raid invests in max DPS consumables so that those potions aren't wasted. And then Loatheb goes and pushes the consumable requirement over the top. It's better for the raid to invest an hour or more of preperation picking up one-time use world buffs then it is to risk losing the 120 GSPP.

My guild beat Loatheb for the first time without any world buffs as well. As Gurg said, world buffs make Loatheb a sure thing and allow you more flexibility with the class composition of your raid.

With regards to the amount of consumables required in Naxx -- Naxxramus is a homerun in my book. (That's the main reason I'm disappointed Blizz is going to 25 man in the expo -- they finally got it.) It's a VERY hard zone when compared to the difficulty of previously released raid content. It also requires much more precise execution from the bulk of your raid force and requires certain classes to perform tasks they haven't had to do in prior zones. Yes, Loatheb requires a ton of consumables and to reliably make him a one shot at this point world buffs sure do help. BUT, consumables for the raid force at large aren't really required for any other fight in the zone (I've missed our 4H attempts so I may be off here) and I don't really have an issue with them for Loatheb.

Think about it from the designers perspective -- if you made Loatheb doable with the standard buffs, where you flask the tank and everyone else kind of throws on whatever they feel like, how does that encounter play when people THEN go out and get the buffs? He's a trash mob. It's totally trivialized. Once you get it down, it costs you 3 shadow pots, some warlock grumbling and a few other consumables per week. It's really not that big a deal and the consumable requirements will fade on him over time just like they always do in raid zones.

I, for one, like the consumable requirement for him and Naxx in general. There's a certain level of satisfaction I get when I see all my guildmates come together and make sure we all have everything we need and then go in and beat the boss.

I hear what you are saying and I get it. Naxx is composed of all different types of fights. Gothik I guess is the hardest "execution" fight, but there are a number of other ones in there. Thaddius, Heigan, 4H and to a lesser extent Anub and Grobb. There are also a number of gear check fights like Patch, Maexx, Widow and Thaddius.

I think the gear check fights are fine. I would be kinda pissed if every fight was like Heigan where any guild that had a tank with a high defense could beat it as long as they executed.

It's kind of nice to have a fight that you know you won't wipe on if you just run around the world and collect buffs for 2 hours though, not that it was a good idea, but it somehow works.

Either way, I'm fully convinced Naxx was implemented to drain all the guild banks with like 100k gold and massive materials so they aren't dominating economies come expansion time.

I don't really know about that. While Naxx has certainly been taxing on guild and player pocketbooks alike, the grind is nearing an end. Judging by how fast Sapp went down and the progress on Kel, it would appear that once the horsemen are down you're effectively done with the consumable drain.

We're nearing the point where we should all start coming out of Naxx in the black, at least on the clear of the first three wings and hopefully we'll regain some of that money we sunk into it. Then we can sell all our frozen runes the guilds that suddenly need frost resist gear once blizz hits Naxx with the nerf stick.

Loatheb and Patch look like they will still need consumables to make sure they are taken down, looks the same for 4H.

The only nerf stick I see Naxx getting is people being able to level, and I think that those people would rather do the new dungeons (with the more ilevel efficient items) than 40 man content.

I could be wrong and people will still want to do 40 man stuff after the expansion, and then you have your frozen rune market.

Depending on the cost of other items to craft the FrR gear, people may want to buy the stuff now (it is decent gear, better than a lot of blues in some cases), and it has that shiny purple color ;).

If that's the only nerf Naxx gets between here and the expansion I think it would be a shame. I would wager there are tons of guilds out there that would really enjoy the content yet they lack either the skill / gear / organization to really tackle the zone past the first 5 or so bosses. Naxx is by far and away the most enjoyable zone IMO and I can't imagine Blizzard has any intention of only 100 or so guilds killing Kel by the time the expansion comes out. What a waste of time / effort that would be.

edit: nevermind me :>