Ive been hearing reports of new consumables (from another thread on these forums), new flasks, new pots, and I was wondering if anyone else was a little worried by this all.

Naxx has shown that the current level of consumable power is probably too high; a fully buffed raid group in tier1 is probably close or beyond the capabilities of a full tier 3 raid not using consumables. The idea of new and more powerful consumables just makes my brain shriek at the idea of farming beyond even those levels required by Naxx. How are other people reacting the the items being leaked/released form the expansion ?

I think it makes a lot of sense. These encounters are most certainly doable with say only flask of the titans and maybe one head buff, yet going for overkill can help 'guarentee' a 10% try becomes a loot sack.

Something like a flask is basicly Mark or the Wild/Prayer of Fortitude but with a high material cost and more limited application. The only downside to these consumables in my eyes is that alchemists are going to be filthy rich :)

However, no matter how many consumables you have at, say, C'thun, if you haven't had him on stage 2 3-4 times you're wasting them as not everyone in the raid will be 100% sure what to do.

Personally, I dont see how Loatheb is possible without SPP's, and therefore I think we have proof of consumables need in current fights. Whether Blizzard thinks this is a good thing or a bad thing (they seem to hate inflation so less money in circulation the better), there is at least a basis on it going forward.

I wouldn't think that the use of consumables would remove money from circulation. It just takes money from guild-banks & raiders and gives it to herbalists and goldfarmers who have picked up on the value of herbing.

Not using consumables can result in wiping more on new and difficult encoutners. This means more repairbills, which does remove money from circulation.

I'm terrified at the idea of more consumables. We raid Mon-Thurs and on Sunday evenings. Outside of that, I really don't have a lot of time to farm. We've been okay going through AQ40 (one shot our second Emps kill this week), but honestly I might be crippled going into Naxx by the consumable requirements.

I wish there was a way to limit consumable use, similar to how currently many do not stack (a lot of elixirs don't stack, thorns / fireshield / crystal spire don't stack, fewer food buffs stack now, etc). You can choose your favorite consumables, and flask when needed, but you can't put on like 20 of 'em.

We don't know how else they're implementing them. If they put a cap on the number of consumables you can have at once, while simultaneously improving diversity and quality of consumables, then that's a good change. If they just give us ten new things we need to have in order to remain competitive, that's not.

I would be fine with the consumables if there were some direct way to acquire the materials for them from raiding rather than relying on a few members with copious amounts of free time to gather them solo or buy them from the AH at outrageous prices. Many people in several forums I've read have made excellent suggestions like:

- merchant at the entrance of raids who sells a limited amount of needed potions at a fair cost which are soulbound and usable only in that raid instance.
- a decent number of high level herb spawns in raid instances which are soulbound upon pickup
- herb gardens one could own and cultivate a small number of herbs

I don't believe anyone wants to destroy the viability of the Alchemist profession to make a buck, but something that can slightly take the farming edge off the raiding game may help.

Agreed... although I kind of miss the days of MC where you could fund your guild off of BoE's... Rather than make guilds self sufficient, there has to be a way to make the economy more cyclical where raiding guilds can collect stuff to sell that's actually useable by non-raiders to make money which they use in turn to buy the consumable stuff that the enterprising non-raiders are selling to raiders so they can buy raid generated BoE's...

I'd love to see some real metrics but it just feels like all the money guilds made in MC and even in BWL (since the bosses are actually profitable once you are comfortable with the zone) has just been dwindling away to repair bills and off to non-raiders that are selling herbs and such (cgf's or otherwise). And since those non-raiders have less things to spend money on, that money is probably just sitting around which may not be helping Blizzard's view of how effective their money sinks are working.

I'm pretty worried about consumables in the expansion. I reactivated my WoW account after almost fifteen months of inactivity due to TBC. I want to take a few months to prepare for leveling a paladin to 70 and get WoW back into my normal schedule.

If consumable use in TBC for high level raiding steps up beyond what exists in Naxx, I'll probably just pvp for a bit and then go back to another MMO or console gaming.

I love WoW and I think it is an excellent game, but I don't dig the idea of having to farm six hours a day or do head quests to have a reliable chance at downing certain bosses.

Consumables should be part of the game. They allow for short-term character customization to help overcome specific challenges, but when raids are stacking characters with every consumable that matters for that class, I think it has gone too far.

It really seems like the best solution is to limit the raw number of consumable effects you can have on you at any given time. That and giving raids more access to consumable materials through rewards in instances or through herb garden-type fixtures in guild halls.

The whole idea of, "more consumable use removes money from the economy," is flawed, because it doesn't remove money from the economy, minus buying the vials you need to purchase, which cost a pittance compared to the price of herbs on auction. All that's really happening is money changing hands. All adding several new consumables, without restrictions, will do is cause a faster transfer of funds from raiding guilds to gatherers.

There already exists a restriction on flasks, so it seems natural that there could also be a restriction on less potent drinks and other types of consumables (such as the runes blacksmiths will be able to make).

Something like:

1 Flask
1 Food or drink buff
2 Armor buffs (one chest, one shield)
2 Weapon buffs (one per weapon)
2 Elixirs
3 Potions

Would probably go a long way towards evening things out. It would also free up the developers to create a much more diverse array of consumable items. Of course, we could then run into the problem of needing potions X, Y and Z for fight one, while turning around to need potions A, B, C for fight two.

I'm going to wait and see. TBC has me really excited for several reasons, but seeing the new flasks and consumables raises some red flags.

Consumables will need to change in the expansion. It's already reached a ridiculous point.

Buff limits need to be instituted as well.

There is a buff limit, but with 1.12.1 enchants will no longer count as buffs, so there is room for 32 (more buffs will be possible).

Edit: Sockets may take up buffs slots like enchants do now.

I don't see consumables changing much, but with the dungeon difficulty levels (at least on the leveling dungeons) you can set the dungeon to normal and not need them, but at hardest level you may need consumables (but get better items from bosses).

At least Alchemy will have specialize areas (makes more pots sometimes or more transmutes), so the supply may be a little better.

They should really implement a consumable rating system, and there should be a cap to that system, IE Flasks are 100, Elixirs are 75, and you only get a 150 point cap.

Hopefully the response to Loatheb's requirement of consumables will teach Blizzard how it should work. From one of the earlier EJ kill threads, Gurgthok mentioned that it's plausible to beat the encounter without all the various world buffs. Just standard buffing, Patchwerk consumables, and 120 GSPP. The investment cost of 120 GSPP per a kill though, has convinced all the guilds that the best way to beat the encounter is just stack up on world buffs and not waste such a huge investment. I don't really remember any previous boss being killed in that way EVERY WEEK for guilds (maybe Ragnaros/Vael with UBRS buff).

Consumables should be the edge between a wipe at 5-10% and a clean kill. What they shouldn't be is a requirement to even attempt the boss.


Although I do like raid-level consumables (like Flask of the Titans and maybe Stoneshield Potions).

It's definitely possible. Our first kill was with zero world buffs. Just standard consumables. And it came after three wipes in the single digits. If the only benefit to using world buffs was saving 40 GSPPs, we wouldn't bother. The benefit is in making it a sure thing without raid-stacking. Sure, if we brought 7 fury warriors and fire mages, we could drop Loatheb without world buffs and it'd be fine. But we don't have that onhand normally, and the idea of gambling with 80-120 GSPPs, a raid full of DPS buffs, and so forth, is simply not palatable.

But yes, it's kind of dumb that we have a weekly buff routine where we clear ZG and BWL in order to get a head and heart, and have someone's alt get a Rend head, so that we can smoothly do Loatheb the following week. And we're hardly undergeared. We've got a raid full of people with 4pc and 6pc t3 bonuses, every rogue and warrior has C'Thun or Naxx-quality weaponry, etc.

Looking at the new potions, Rob Pardo's keynote posted elsewhere here, and Naxx design, I think hard core raiding is going to require more and more consumables.

Not a trend I like. Accessibility is one of the keys success for WoW, and I don't want raiding to be harder for me, or for any new people we gotta recruit for the mighty task...