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Old 09/08/06, 8:16 AM   #1
Metalmilitia
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Dunemaul (EU)
I was wondering which one of the two would be better applied on Rhokdelar and Ashjrethul in a strictly PVE enviroment that ranges from BWL to AQ40 and the beginning of Naxxramas ?

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Old 09/08/06, 8:30 AM   #2
Sess
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Vashj (EU)
I'm not a hunter, but doesnt this highly depend on the gear?

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Old 09/08/06, 8:35 AM   #3
Metalmilitia
Von Kaiser
 
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Dunemaul (EU)
i am not sure about how "highly". however the thing i am interested the most is if and when that +3% hit will result in a higher overall damage output :)

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Old 09/08/06, 8:38 AM   #4
Starks
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Perenolde
It does depend on your specific gear, but here is some math Sarana did in this thread on the matter (to give an idea)

Originally Posted by Sarana
Hm, I did some math using Lactose’s formulas (if I did this correctly). With my current gear and 5/31/6 type spec.
(Both test have the same gear but weapon stats affected the RAP and crit)

Ash @ 1540 RAP, 24.78% crit, vs. Level 63
Hit +7 DPS 3% hit
5 557.55 565.56 3% is better by 8.01 DPS
6 562.14 568.29 3% is better by 6.05 DPS
7 566.73 568.29 3% is better by 1.56 DPS
8 571.33 568.29 +7 is better by 3.04 DPS
9 574.09 568.29 +7 is better by 5.8 DPS

Huhu @ 1540 RAP, 25.12% crit, vs. Level 63
Hit +7 DPS 3% hit
5 513.15 519.47 3% is better by 6.32 DPS
6 517.35 521.96 3% is better by 4.61 DPS
7 521.56 521.96 3% is better by 0.40 DPS
8 525.77 521.96 +7 is better by 3.81 DPS
9 528.29 521.96 +7 is better by 6.33 DPS

So, what it looks like is that 3% hit is superior to +7 hit until you have 8 hit (before scope). Hunters shouldn’t really need +hit since it’s so easy to get through gear and +7 damage is the only possible enchant that effects our hit damage.

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Old 09/08/06, 8:40 AM   #5
Farstrider
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Farrstrider
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Originally Posted by Metalmilitia
I was wondering which one of the two would be better applied on Rhokdelar and Ashjrethul in a strictly PVE enviroment that ranges from BWL to AQ40 and the beginning of Naxxramas ?
I believe there are a number of threads that touch on this topic although it might take some browsing to find the precise answer.

For non-troll hunters you require +8.6% to hit to never miss. Giantstalker gives +3% to hit on its own, while your rings should be giving you a minimum of +2% to hit. That makes 5% which can be further augmented by the addition of ZG enchants, to 7%. At that point you would find that the +7 dmg scope would improve your damage more than the +3% scope.

Dragonstalker gives 1 less +% hit but at that stage you get access to Drake Fang Talisman which will replace your DM tribute & give +2% to hit.

The answer really depends on your gear, but to be honest I find it very difficult to envisage a situation in which I would use the +3% to hit scope.

EDIT:- Beaten by math... as you can see above my guess of 7% was just out. I'd stand by my final sentence given the cost of the materials for the +3% and the fact you'll be replacing it at some point.

On a seperate note I believe it only applies to ranged attacks otherwise it would be worth its weight in gold to rogues.

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Old 09/08/06, 8:41 AM   #6
selece
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Selece
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If you're LR spec, you can most likely hit the 9% hit cap for ranged without the scope, due to Surefooted.

If you're MM spec, you may have a bit more difficulty getting to 9%. If you're under 9% and the +3% will bring you to ~about~ 9%, you may see a damage increase over a +7 scope. If you're sitting at 7-8%, the hit scope is probably overkill. At 7% hit ... maaaaaaaybe, but you'd have to crunch the numbers.

The 3% scope is also incredibly expensive in comparison to the +7 scope.

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Old 09/08/06, 8:44 AM   #7
Metalmilitia
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Dunemaul (EU)
great, thanks!

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Old 09/08/06, 9:11 AM   #8
Qrt
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Lightbringer (EU)
In a situation where you for instance are supposed to play posion soak to Huhuran you'll find your +hit severely gimped, and as you need to keep her tranq'ed too you might consider putting a +3 hit scope on a weapon especially for that encounter - something along the lines of Fahrad's Reloading Repeater which already has +1.

A special case right now I suppose - but I'm sure we'll see encounters in future instances where the need for resist gear will hurt your to-hit chance.

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Old 09/08/06, 10:59 AM   #9
• Relwin
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Mal'Ganis
Getting a special stat like 3% to hit on a slot that you can't really do much else with is huge. The amount of choice it allows you to make with the rest of your gear is something that you can't put into a spreadsheet and spit out numbers for. By removing one third of the requirement to never miss a shot on a single piece of gear any hunter is doing themselves more justice than +7 damage would.


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Old 09/08/06, 11:36 AM   #10
Eej
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Eej
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+7 damage is roughly equal to +30 AP. If you can give up 3% to hit in your gear setup to gain more than 30AP, then get a Bizznicks.

Itemization point wise, +3% hit is just way bigger than 30AP, the trick is finding items that don't waste their points on %hit.

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Old 09/08/06, 11:37 AM   #11
Lactose
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Talnivarr (EU)
Except for a *lot* of the time, the best items (disregarding hit) are the same as the best items (not disregarding hit) for that slot. Ring choice might differ a bit based on scope. We can't tailor our own items (if we could, my Crypstalker would be looking a lot different ;)).

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Old 09/08/06, 11:48 AM   #12
Eej
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Eej
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Well, full CS gets you +4% to hit, add two ZG enchants and that's 6% to hit. Slap on a Sniper Scope and that's 9% right there.

IMO, that gives you a lot of flexibility with what kind of neck, weapons, rings and trinkets you want to use, since you don't have to worry about +hit at all. Of course, if you are top DKP in the guild and have access to everything (like Band of Unnatural Forces, Kiss of the Spider, Maexxna's Fang, etc.), then +3% hit to scope isn't really that great. But when you use the same suit of gear for PvE that you do for PvP and don't have much free DKP to throw around, getting 3% hit scope gives you more flexibility than having to make sure the gear you're spending points on has enough hit. :P

e.g. I'd like a Barbed Choker/Sadist's Collar to accompany the Archimtiros and Band of Reanimation I'm rocking. No +hit there at all or in my trinket slots, or in my weapon slot (Eye of Nerub... wait, that is +hit isn't it? Damnit!)

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Old 09/08/06, 12:18 PM   #13
Elendril
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ner'zhul
i have maxed +hit without even actively trying. CS bracers/belt/boots, 2 ZG enchants, drake fang, prestor's, and Eye of Nerub. those happen to be at least close to the optimal items for those slots even barring +hit, and i could easily put on my exalted AQ ring over godslayer or band of reanimation if i needed more.

and eej...maexxna's fang? wtf.

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Old 09/08/06, 12:24 PM   #14
Eej
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Eej
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Hay, it has good AP and it has +hit too, which is good assuming you're lacking in hit anyhow.

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Old 09/08/06, 12:49 PM   #15
Azulor
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Starks
It does depend on your specific gear, but here is some math Sarana did in this thread on the matter (to give an idea)

Originally Posted by Sarana
Hm, I did some math using Lactose’s formulas (if I did this correctly). With my current gear and 5/31/6 type spec.
(Both test have the same gear but weapon stats affected the RAP and crit)

Ash @ 1540 RAP, 24.78% crit, vs. Level 63
Hit +7 DPS 3% hit
5 557.55 565.56 3% is better by 8.01 DPS
6 562.14 568.29 3% is better by 6.05 DPS
7 566.73 568.29 3% is better by 1.56 DPS
8 571.33 568.29 +7 is better by 3.04 DPS
9 574.09 568.29 +7 is better by 5.8 DPS

Huhu @ 1540 RAP, 25.12% crit, vs. Level 63
Hit +7 DPS 3% hit
5 513.15 519.47 3% is better by 6.32 DPS
6 517.35 521.96 3% is better by 4.61 DPS
7 521.56 521.96 3% is better by 0.40 DPS
8 525.77 521.96 +7 is better by 3.81 DPS
9 528.29 521.96 +7 is better by 6.33 DPS

So, what it looks like is that 3% hit is superior to +7 hit until you have 8 hit (before scope). Hunters shouldn’t really need +hit since it’s so easy to get through gear and +7 damage is the only possible enchant that effects our hit damage.
I don't fully agree with this. It neglects that, if you choose to use the scope, you can put on different gear in other slots. I am not trying to say you should get the scope, but you need to at least imagine what other gear you'd use. For me, getting a scope on Ash would mean getting rid of Cloak of the Unseen Path and replacing with shrouded mists, and changing rings.

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