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Old 09/10/06, 11:55 AM   #1
Tempedsteel
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Burning Blade
Even though, I'm a good bit away from kel'thuzad, I was wondering how much more useful (number wise/threat wise) hungering cold is for tanking. That +6 weapon skill could help you cut down on those dodge/block/parrys you're always faced with. I know it's awesome for a sword spec rogue off hand...don't get me wrong, but is it more useful for a MT.


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Old 09/10/06, 12:33 PM   #2
Sicks
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Deathwing
Originally Posted by Tempedsteel
I know it's awesome for a sword spec rogue off hand...don't get me wrong, but is it more useful for a MT.
Your open-mindedness is apparent and appreciated.

Wodin\'s cat changed my life.

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Old 09/10/06, 12:41 PM   #3
 frmorrison
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Tempedsteel
That +6 weapon skill could help you cut down on those dodge/block/parrys you're always faced with.
Weapon skill does little to affect dodge/block/parry. However, it does decrease the glancing blow penalty, which will do more damage and increase rage production.

Just looking at the stats of the two weapons should clearly show you which one is better.

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Old 09/10/06, 1:05 PM   #4
Zynth
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Caelestrasz
Agreed, the main benifite of HC is that it'll cut the penilty of glancing blows by more than half, on top of having 10 more DPS.

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Old 09/10/06, 2:51 PM   #5
Garfunkel
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Rogue
 
Stonemaul
+6 Sword Skill is far more valuable then +1 To Hit.

The benefit of +6 Skill is:

Your chance to Miss decreases by 0.24%.
Your chance to score a Critical Hit increases by 0.24%.
Your opponent's chance to Block your attacks decreases by 0.24%.
Your opponent's chance to Parry your attacks decreases by 0.24%.
Your opponent's chance to Dodge your attacks decreases by 0.24%.

That alone right there is nearly equivalent to +0.96% To Hit (although the Block part is debatable). Add to this the Crit bonus, and the fact that the Glancing Blow penalty vs. 63s is -30% damage on 40% of your White Hits. +6 Swords reduces this penalty to -12%. This is completely ignoring the fact that THC has 10.2 DPS over Widow's Remorse.

The 3 Stamina is probably a tad bit better than 40 Armor, but it's really a wash, and the benefits of the extra DPS and +6 Sword Skill far outweigh anything else.

THC is far superior to Widow's Remorse, there's no contest.

The real debate is THC vs. Thunderfury, but it's not an easy answer since the main benefit of the TF (at least imo), is the 20% Slowing debuff.

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Old 09/10/06, 4:07 PM   #6
Kyne
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Doing more damage is better Rage generation. I was pretty sold from the beginning.

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Old 09/10/06, 4:07 PM   #7
Quigon
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Warrior
 
Kil'Jaeden
Wouldn't a TF/Widow's tank be better off just using what they have, and sharing the wealth here?

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Old 09/10/06, 6:24 PM   #8
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Quigon
Wouldn't a TF/Widow's tank be better off just using what they have, and sharing the wealth here?
I believe so, yes.

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Old 09/10/06, 6:36 PM   #9
Whiteknight
Bald Bull
 
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Night Elf Warrior
 
Proudmoore
Considering that HS can't glance, and when I'm tanking anything important, HS is permanently lit; is the +6 sword really that good?

I'd think this sword would excel for tanking trash or tier 1 bosses where I get a lot of white hits, but for important bosses, my white damage goes down a *lot* so the benefit of the extra rage gen/threat on white hits is cancelled.

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Old 09/10/06, 7:02 PM   #10
xarg
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Blackrock
I'm with whiteknight here, while the almost 1% to hit is quite valid, the points on extra white damage from less glancing blows is largely negated by:

1. 90% (awesomely approximated figure) of your rage generation is from dmg taken not dealt
2. If you're in naxx you're more than likely having heroic strike lit up almost constantly, completely negating glancing blows anyway

For trash and such I'm sure it's good, but on bosses (where things really matter) the glancing blows reduction doesn't factor into it much at all. If I had widow's remorse / TF I'd let another tank / rogue take it.

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Old 09/10/06, 8:00 PM   #11
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
Just something to think about ... which sword will you want to be using in TBC where not everything you fight is a boss that hits for 2k and most of your rage isn't from being hit. And honestly, it's a rather large DPS upgrade anyway. An extra 20 damage is nothing to snub at when looking at fights like thaddius (yes, I know that if you can kill Kelth, you can kill Thaddius regularly) where aggro becomes an issue.

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Old 09/10/06, 11:19 PM   #12
Trindade
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Khaz'goroth
Originally Posted by Garfunkel
The benefit of +6 Skill is:

Your chance to Miss decreases by 0.24%.
Your chance to score a Critical Hit increases by 0.24%.
Your opponent's chance to Block your attacks decreases by 0.24%.
Your opponent's chance to Parry your attacks decreases by 0.24%.
Your opponent's chance to Dodge your attacks decreases by 0.24%.
Unless I'm delusional, I often see my heroic strikes get parried blocked and dodged by bosses. Hell, the only time I won't hold solid agro at the start of the fight is when I get a string of avoidance straight up. The weapon skill should help avoid this on hits with HS, and in BC should apply to hits with devastate.

In thinking about sharing the wealth, as some others posted, let's not forget that rogues have a talent option to reclaim damage lost from glancing blows, and if swords, would probably be wanting to get their hands on this monster:
http://www.worldofraids.com/v2/?page=viewitem&idd=43

So, some rogues will be wanting Kingsfall, others the Gressil, and yet others will be queuing for the nerubian slavemaker (I'm sure I'll be hearing arguments along the lines of hunter dps sucking anyway). Hell, why don't we just screw it and give em the whole loot table ;p.

To turn the table, shouldn't rogues with ilbis be satisfied with that and share the wealth?

This weapon serves a dual function for warriors. It fits neatly as a tanking weapon, when they are called on to do that, and also offers a good off-hand option to reclaim damage lost from glancing.

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Old 09/11/06, 3:47 AM   #13
Tempedsteel
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Warrior
 
Burning Blade
Yeah basically a human rogue with this frees up 2 points from their combat tree...I know this.


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Old 09/11/06, 9:29 AM   #14
diospadre
Hero of the Horde
 
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Undead Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
This is going to be my DW MH :(

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