Shaman Dual-wielding buff information

Dozer · 09/11/06, 3:10 AM

I take no credit for this, but I was fairly shocked when I read it and felt I needed to share.

I did some tests tonight of the DW weapon buffs with Shaman and how they all work together. Some of them make sense, and others do not. I personally think this is because of the way the weapons are actually being buffed versus what it says it should do on the tool tip. Let me explain my set up and what I found.

I used a slow axe with high dmg range in my Main Hand and a fast dagger with very low DPS in the Off Hand. This was mainly so I could tell which weapon was hitting the mobs just from the dmg caused. The weapons in question:

MH: Frostbite (42.6 DPS, 2.7 speed)
OH: Stilleto (3.3 DPS, 1.5 speed)

The following are the buffs put on each (MH/OH), and the results I found with them:

RB/WF
Rockbiter adds it's buff to both weapons, not just the MH, even though it says it's only on the MH. Windfury will proc off the OH, but the two extra hits will be from the MH weapon.

WF/RB
Again RB adds it's buff to both weapons. This time, WF procs off the MH, and the two extra hits also come from the main hand again.

WF/WF
Windfury will now proc off either hand. Again, the second two hits always come from the main hand.

FT/FT
Flametongue is an oddity. It does the same damage on both weapons. The damage it does is dependent only on the MH weapon speed, not the OH. With the above set up, I did 100 fire dmg per hit on both the axe and the dagger. When I swapped them and put the faster dagger in the MH, FT did only 60 dmg on both weapons, again disregarding the speed of the offhand weapon for the amount of dmg on proc.

What's more strange, if you hit Stormstrike with dual FT, you get your normal FT proc off each instant hit, but also two more! That's four FT procs every time you hit SS! Very odd. With FT on only one weapon, FT procs twice on SS. So it's basically an extra FT proc on SS.

FB/FB
Frostbrand seems to work normally. It sometimes proced for 230 frost dmg on each weapon it was cast on like you would expect.

RB/RB
You probably saw this coming from the first example, but yes, Rockbiter adds to both weapons twice. In actuality, it doesn't seem to buff the weapon at all, but instead just buffs the character's AP. This means a total of 1600+ AP with dual RB. That's +100 dps or so added to both weapons. To show how slightly rediculous this is, I added dual RB to two lvl 4 weapons to see what their dmg output would be with my gear on:

Tomahawk (3.8 dps base) MH = 165 dps
Stilleto (3.3 dps base) OH = 82.2 dps

That's with no totems or other buffs. Ouch.

While I like the affect this has on my play (hey I can actually DPS now!), I'm wondering if this is the way it's intended. Everything in the game talks about buffing the weapon (singular) and the buff is put specifically on the weapon (as you can see in the tool tip), but the effects are mostly anything but.

This is some crazy implementaion as it currently stands, and will probably get nerfed. Drooling aside, it is good to know that multiple weapon buffs is possible and looks to be a versitile system.

Khalim · 09/11/06, 3:39 AM

Man I am so getting a decent 2 hander before the expansion

novasphere · 09/11/06, 3:46 AM

This means a total of 1600+ AP with dual RB.

This entire section had me laughing out loud. Good stuff here; I suppose Blizzard's got their work cut out for them to fix how Shaman mechanics conflict with each other when something crazy like duel-wielding is introduced.

• Chicken · 09/11/06, 4:10 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Rockbiter is going to get changed so it only affected the weapon it casts on. On the other hand,with Windfury on the off-hand and it giving the main-hand the extra two attacks, and you had Rockbiter on your main hand...

But more then likely the implementation of the weapon buffs is still a bit goofy right now. It's still in Alpha testing after all.

Exewut · 09/11/06, 4:13 AM

This is very interesting.

WF on a very fast offhand and a very slow mainhand would do alot of damage, so would flametongue weapon on a fast offhand.
I'm willing to bet that the mechanics are still broken if the weapon buffs take the mainhand speed to determen the offhand weapon's effect

crimsonsentinel · 09/11/06, 4:28 AM

Think of all the aggro generation.....

Vazu · 09/11/06, 5:17 AM

I can't wait for Shaman to take off those pesky shields and start dual wielding in mass. It will make them 10x easier to kill with 2-3k less armor. It's a running joke in our guild, actually. Kinda like the "Retnoob" Paladins. Can't wait for those Shaman who think they're Rocky Balboa! Support is king. If you're a healer, in mail armor and not wearing a shield, our Rogues/DPS Warriors are going to absolutely lay waste to you. The Shaman who we fear most have a purple shield with frequently green glowing hands.

Edit: I can see it being a nice addition as DPS in a hybrid PVE situation. I'm only talking about PVP.

Exewut · 09/11/06, 5:56 AM

In my experience burning down an enemy fast is a good defence aswell. Not to mention that (most) shields don't help that much against magic damage aswell

Shmanel · 09/11/06, 6:06 AM

Originally Posted by Vazu

I can't wait for Shaman to take off those pesky shields and start dual wielding in mass. It will make them 10x easier to kill with 2-3k less armor. It's a running joke in our guild, actually. Kinda like the "Retnoob" Paladins. Can't wait for those Shaman who think they're Rocky Balboa! Support is king. If you're a healer, in mail armor and not wearing a shield, our Rogues/DPS Warriors are going to absolutely lay waste to you. The Shaman who we fear most have a purple shield with frequently green glowing hands.

Edit: I can see it being a nice addition as DPS in a hybrid PVE situation. I'm only talking about PVP.

Im not saying it will be the end all of melee dps, but dont you think a shaman with 2.5k+ AP double attacking with Stormstrike (it does say "attacks with ALL equipped weapons" now) is a bit of a problem? Not to mention if you skip Shamanistic Rage you could still get NS. Sure it wont be the best thing ever, but it does seem like itd be a pretty good burst dps option for DW shammies.

Vazu · 09/11/06, 9:33 AM

Originally Posted by Exewut

In my experience burning down an enemy fast is a good defence aswell. Not to mention that (most) shields don't help that much against magic damage aswell

Yeah, I'm not saying they won't do good damage. I'm simply saying that compared to a fury Warrior in plate with 6k health unbuffed, they won't have nearly the survivability. If dual-wield Shaman after the BC really do pose that big of an offensive threat, they'll be so much easier to kill with 2-2.5k less armor from a shield. Again, they're in mail.

Dozer · 09/11/06, 10:09 AM

This morning it came to mind that THIS is probably the best offhand in the game for a dual-weilding shaman. :)

• frmorrison · 09/11/06, 10:18 AM

Not surprised there are oddities with the weapon buffs, but I would be surprised if the same effects stayed in release.

To the PvP comment, a good DW Shaman will swap in a Shield if he sees a geared Rogue or Warrior with full health.

taylor · 09/11/06, 10:42 AM

Looks like they just added dual wield and didn't test how it would work.

Haldane · 09/11/06, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by taylor

Looks like they just added dual wield and didn't test how it would work.

Who, Blizzard? Nah, they'd never, ever, ever do a thing like that.

...sigh