Just a quick question as I am not in beta. I understand that Mass Dispel is capable of removing paladin shields (great for arena's). However, I am curious if anyone knows a list (or have already compiled one) of spells/abilities which mass dispel can remove.
Thanks!
Basically, anything that is a Magic effect but would pop an 'immune' message when attempted to be normally dispelled. In other words:
If there are any other priest min/maxers out there I threw together a spreadsheet with some of the new BC gear, gems, talents, some consumables, and our spells. The way I valued gear was based entirely on how much theoretical mana it would give you. So for stuff like int (15 mana untalented), spirit (spi/4 per tick out of 5sr, spi/4*talents per tick in), mana/5 (self explanatory), and +healing (depends on actual healing of 1 +healing/hpm * number of casts for your main heal spell) . For the most part it's complete, I don't have a lvl 70 char on beta though so I couldn't test PoM or how accurate it would be at 70 but it should be very close. I took into account the diminishing returns on lower level spells with:
[(next rank lvl - 1 + 6 ) / current level] as a multiplier on the +healing portion
for the most part its [spell lvl(when you trained it) + 11 / current level] but it gets a little funky at lvl 60 since you learn new ranks at different intervals instead of every 6.
One small thing though, I used Thottbot's numbers for the base healing on spells and I only later found out all healing spells (except PW:S and renew as far as I know) actually scale a little as you level. So... expect the healing numbers to be off by like 20 or so. Anyway, here it is:
Spirit @ level 70: I'm 400 unbuffed, when we ran Karazhan I was close to 500 with 2-3 pieces of KZ gear which was a spirit upgrade over what I had. Divine Spirit is +50 and with kings finally that's another 45 spirit or so, and there's all sorts of +spirit food now like sta/spr or healing/spr. I wouldn't be surprised to see 550-600 with t5 raiding gear. There's also some use/proc items that add +100 or more spirit for x seconds.
Spiritual Guidance stacks with Improved Divine Spirit, as does Mental Agility and Absolution which combined is almost -100 mana on dispel @ 70.
IIRC Spiritual Healing now applies after +healing so it's a must have talent now if you're healing.
I never found anything mass dispel could remove that dispel couldn't in pve so far (5 mans/karazhan).
Prayer of Mending is the best thing to happen to healing priests in the expansion.
I just had PS dispelled for the first time today in AV, and that is utterly annoying.
41 points down the drain. It's different than most of the other 41 pts that are able to be dispelled because it's not really what I consider an added "bonus" to top off the tree, but really the reason you spec 41 pts into disc.
Here's to hoping the silly dispellable with normal dispel and purge gets redone when TBC hits, because all of that survivability gone in a flash is kinda insane.
Crossposting a post I made to shadowpriest.com for further input:
I am going to break a long-standing rule for my specs when TBC arrives. I have always been a strong believer in specialization, and have never been a fan of trispecs or the like. For leveling in TBC however, the situation is very peculiar.
For most of the leveling time, I will be in instances, most likely healing. Being able to dps will make me more likely to sneak into more groups though. Outdoor levelling will be almost impossible on a hardcore, high pop PvP server with balanced H:A ratios. There will however be times when I need to solo, because guild groups are not available. The following spec allows me to do all three things with passable efficiency: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=dZfotccZxGrd0tRhtVo
At 60 I will start with the 41 in shadow and 10 in holy. The points chosen in shadow allow me to grind at pretty much maximum efficiency, essentially only losing some MB cooldown and MB/SWD crit from a full shadow build. 5% hit (I expect to be able to maintain 1% on gear with ease) is sufficient for anything except +3 mobs. Silence is there because I'm on a very bloody PvP server, and it's invaluable for that purpose. Shadow Affinity is prioritized because 5-mans are generally extremely aggro sensitive.
After those 41, I was faced with a choice: More shadow, 10-20 in disc, or 10-20 in holy. The first 10 points in holy are some of the, if not the absolute best healing talents available to us. The 11th-14th disc talents are great, but I have to pick up some questionable all round talents before that (the only one I really want pre-meditation is really martyrdom).
After 10 in holy, the next 5 points are rather poor for 5mans. However at 15 points, I can get Improved Healing, which is once again one of our best healing talents. Holy Nova could be situationally useful, so it deserves a point versus the mediocre alternatives.
The build stops at 68, since that is a major turning point with PoM becoming available. At that point I will have to decide if I will go for a strong heal build taking advantage of PoM, or duke it out with the build presented until 70. If it's the latter, the available talents are pretty inconsequential anyhow.
The full alternative to this spec is a disc/holy-based grind spec (going 5 deep in shadow for Tap), but the efficiency of that for grinding is horrible compared to shadow. It's also a very poor group dps spec, and the healing is pretty similar.
Overall, I feel this is an extremely strong choice for an instance-based leveling spec that doesn't sacrifice all solo capability. If you are confident you can get dps spots all the way until 70, there's no reason not to go heavier into shadow/disc, but I have a feeling good healers will be far more useful.
Some posts on the Usenet WoW forum (alt.games.warcraft) suggest that Prayer of Mending works best if you're using 2 tanks (or one tank and one melee DPS in a 5-man, say). That way, you have those two out the front near each other, and the prayer just hops back and forth between them.
In a larger raid, it may be more likely to hop to someone that then doesn't take any further damage for a while - just like chain-propagating Vael's cleave, essentially you can chain-propagate PoMending to somewhere it'll do no use.
This is one that will require the raid to know how to help the priest, rather than vice versa - but *if* you get the positioning right, and can achieve control over who takes damage when, and where they're standing, it'll be one of the most useful spells in the book for efficiency.
Some posts on the Usenet WoW forum (alt.games.warcraft) suggest that Prayer of Mending works best if you're using 2 tanks (or one tank and one melee DPS in a 5-man, say). That way, you have those two out the front near each other, and the prayer just hops back and forth between them.
Aye, that was me posting over there. Hello by the way, first post here.
I was also suggesting about Prayer of Mending being even more efficient when using two specifically different classes as tanks, one with a rather high avoidance (say, a protection warrior), and one with a rather high mitigation (say, a bear). I'm still lacking end game experience, but from what I've seen, Prayer of Mending is best placed on someone that you know has a good chance to take relatively high damage sporadically (high avoidance protection warrior tanking a boss, for example), when the closest teammate is someone else who takes relatively low damage constantly (high mitigation feral druid tanking multiple adds, for example). That way charges bounce back and forth almost instantly between the two tanks, maximizing the healing output of prayer of mending, and leaving the most spare time for the priest between PoM recasts to do something else (damage or regen when nobody takes damage, or additional healing).
For those of you who don't know about usenet, here's a link to a mirror of the "discussion" (if it feels a bit like a monologue at the present time, as there are very few beta players in the newsgroup :P)
I noticed in Karazhan the other night that prayer of mending amounted to about 10-15% of the total healing performed by the raid - by itself. And I was the only priest. But of course I spent most of the evening trying to make it work as best as possible, including spamming it, or whispering the druid to try tanking closer to the warrior - so the healing charts might have been a bit off.
The exact figure is kinda hard to calculate though, because prayer of mending is awarded as healing performed by the healee (same as earthshield now, except much more potent) - consistent with threat generated. It's also probably one of the single best threat buff you can cast to your tank, if you spam it a bit at the beginning of the fight.
For the record, my PoM charge heals for 1200. On one mob, this is a 600 threat bonus per charge, now the big question is, does it get further boosted by defensive stance and defiance? I have no idea how to make that test.
To answer my own question about Prayer of Mending from earlier, yes the two talents do combine to give it a 273 mana cost.
And it is indeed quite a fun spell, and nicely mana efficient with the cost reduction. But with the default UI it's very hard to follow where it jumps and how long until it expires, so I'd recommend getting MendWatch or somthing similar: http://www.wowinterface.com/download...fo.php?id=6576 .
It also seems to prefer jumping to the most injured target, or a random target if everyone is at full health.
Finally it breaks healing meters for good, if there's two priests using it you'll never be able to measure their healing done accurately.
@Elerion: I'd skip 2/5 Imp MB in favor of 2/2 Shadow Reach. And I'd honestly skip Holy completely until 70. The only big seller in early Holy is Divine Fury, but you can easily adjust for a 3s cast on GHeal for all the instances up until Kharazan. I'd go for Meditation instead, you can have 3/3 at 63 and it helps everywhere - solo, group healing or group DPS. Healing Focus is the only Holy talent I will go for until 70, but then again, it's the one talent I can't play without.
@Elerion: I'd skip 2/5 Imp MB in favor of 2/2 Shadow Reach. And I'd honestly skip Holy completely until 70. The only big seller in early Holy is Divine Fury, but you can easily adjust for a 3s cast on GHeal for all the instances up until Kharazan. I'd go for Meditation instead, you can have 3/3 at 63 and it helps everywhere - solo, group healing or group DPS. Healing Focus is the only Holy talent I will go for until 70, but then again, it's the one talent I can't play without.
2.5 seconds gheals make a huge difference if you are playing without a second healer, or if you need high healing throughput.
Meditation is much better if you don't plan to do many instances as a main healer, but since I plan to level inside instances as much as I can, but still want to retain shadow, I defently plan on keeping 10 points in holy while levelling up so I can be proficiently the main healer if called for it.
I mainhealed as Shadow most of the 5 mans up to Netherstorm in Beta. While 2.5s GHeal would have made life easier by all means, it's still doable with a 3s cast. Having a backup healer helped though.
For the record, my PoM charge heals for 1200. On one mob, this is a 600 threat bonus per charge, now the big question is, does it get further boosted by defensive stance and defiance? I have no idea how to make that test.
You should be able to test this by body pulling a mob, waiting for the Warrior to take enough damage so that a single PoM provides it's full healing, than waiting for the warrior to take enough damage again and casting a heal that heals for 10% more than what your PoM does (Make sure you're in melee range).
With your numbers, the base threat should be 600, so that'd put it at 870 threat with Defensive Stance and Defiance, that gives you a range of in between 1320 to 1914 healing; if you get aggro in between that range it is not affected by Defensive Stance and Defiance, if you don't get aggro, it is affected by those.
I mainhealed as Shadow most of the 5 mans up to Netherstorm in Beta. While 2.5s GHeal would have made life easier by all means, it's still doable with a 3s cast. Having a backup healer helped though.
Sure, but do you feel that meditation > -.5 second on greater heal? I am sure it is beter for solo, but given that solo is already very fast with a pure shadow build, I am not overly concerned.
I mainhealed as Shadow most of the 5 mans up to Netherstorm in Beta. While 2.5s GHeal would have made life easier by all means, it's still doable with a 3s cast. Having a backup healer helped though.
Sure, but do you feel that meditation > -.5 second on greater heal? I am sure it is beter for solo, but given that solo is already very fast with a pure shadow build, I am not overly concerned.
For strict healing, faster GHeal is better. But then again, if I'd be planning on doing nothing else but main healing to 70, I'd go 23/38 Disc/Holy and go from there. Meditation is multi-purpose, and more hybrid-ish. As such, I personally feel I'd get a better bang-per-buck out of it. Not to mention I rather like Imp. Fort and Martyrdom better than Imp. Renew/Holy Spec for a Shadow lvling build. Your mileage may vary :).
Seeing as how a priest can't catch much in the way of buffs from the devs, I thought I'd point out the indirect buff we just got.
Mages mana shield now works against magical damage, which means...
at 70, we can now mana burn mages for around 1700-2000 mana IF they have mana shield up. Still no chance to crit or recieve benefit from +dmg, but when you're grabbin at straws any improvement can be considered a buff.
Seeing as how a priest can't catch much in the way of buffs from the devs, I thought I'd point out the indirect buff we just got.
Mages mana shield now works against magical damage, which means...
at 70, we can now mana burn mages for around 1700-2000 mana IF they have mana shield up. Still no chance to crit or recieve benefit from +dmg, but when you're grabbin at straws any improvement can be considered a buff.
Shadow Word: Death would probably be more effective at that, honestly. Plus, since you don't actually do damage to them, I believe you take no return damage. (Someone go duel a priest and make sure I'm not making this up.)
SW_Death deals base damage of about 600 Shadow Damage (untalented), resulting in 1200 mana consumed by Mana Shield (960 Imp MShield).
Mana Burn burns 1000 mana and deals 500 Shadow Damage (untalented), resulting in 1000 burned + 1000 consumed for 2000 mana burned per cast (1800 Imp MShield).
Either way Mana Burn takes down almost twice the mana. Considering HP is scaling above MP, this may become a viable route to take for priests, especially non-shadow.
Mages mana shield now works against magical damage, which means...
at 70, we can now mana burn mages for around 1700-2000 mana IF they have mana shield up. Still no chance to crit or recieve benefit from +dmg, but when you're grabbin at straws any improvement can be considered a buff.
Shadow Word: Death would probably be more effective at that, honestly. Plus, since you don't actually do damage to them, I believe you take no return damage. (Someone go duel a priest and make sure I'm not making this up.)
Mana Burn does half the damage drained as Shadow damage (Drain Mana does 0 damage though).
Also, with the Mana Shield buff, the talent the reduces the mana taken from damage will become more popular, so it will not drain Mages as much, but it still seems like a good tactic.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Cross posted from the Public Forums, as there - apologies if this has been mentioned already:
Originally Posted by Patch Notes
Priests
The bonus coefficient for "Shadow Word: Pain" has been reduced by about 9%. This should result in about 5% less damage done by "Shadow Word: Pain" for the typical priest.
Okay, so I ran some numbers on this using Level 70 SW:P. As best I can figure using the previous coefficient of 120%, and stipulating that there is no need to account for Misery, Darkness, Shadow Weaving, Shadow Form, Imp SW:P (since those all scale multiplicatively), I figured we could estimate what the expected +damage is.
Let x be the amount of +damage gear you have.
Let y be the base damage of SW:P
.09x = .05(y+1.2x)
.03x = .05 y
x = .05 / .03 y
x = 1.67 y
Apparently Blizzard expects "the typical priest" to have +2000 spell damage! Or did we already expect this?
Somebody check these and please tell me I'm wrong.
"reduced by about 9%" sounds like "reduced by 1/11" to me (1/11 is .0909). Interpeted that way, the new coefficient is 1.09 (compared to 1.11 with how you interpeted it).
.11x = .05(y+1.2x)
.05x = .05y
x = y
x = 1236
Still high, but perhaps by "typical priest" they mean "typical level 70 priest with raid gear and buffs", as based on Kalgan's mage comments, that's what they're balancing around right now.
Prayer of Mending has been beaten quite a bit a few months ago. I think we have a good understanding how much it costs and how much it heals for. However, because of beta I never saw any real details on some of more subtle concerns. What are people seeing with it now that there is a reasonable population of people that are 68+? Have people figured out more mechanics on it in terms of how it hops and ways to maximize how it hops? Is threat modified by stance?
Assuming that the empowered mechanic for us works the same as druids/mages (which is X/3.5 + Emp), we know that EH for priest does not give us a straight 10%/20% boost to our flash/greater heals. So, I tried to figure out what we do get. So I did a bit of table work and came up with the following:
The last four columns indicate how much +heal you need from gear, talents, consumables in order to get the above % improvement from 5/5 empowered healing on greater heal. For example, if you want 5/5 empowered healing to give a rank 7 greater heal that was 10% bigger than without it, you would need a paulty 2267 +heal.
In short, 5% is cake (even for non-raiders), 10% is reasonable (for raiders)...15% ROFL.
NOTE1: This table is @ 70 and accounts for +heal loss due to level difference
NOTE2: Base Equation
% Imp = [x + By*(A+0.2)]/[x+ABy]
x = average value of base spell
B = level multiplier for +heal
A = cast time multiplier
y = +heal
Rant of the day... they REALLY need to fix Prayer of Fortitude 3. It's back to the old buffing range and los checks. While PoF 2 is 40 yards and ignores line of site (at least on everyone but who you cast it on), PoF3 is 30 yards and checks LOS. It's highly annoying to buff spirit on your group and see it land on everyone then buff fort and find out the gnome mage was behind a pillar or sitting 2 yards out of the smaller radius. In other words, I blame the gnomes.
12/22/06, 9:15 PM
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