How low level? Pretty much any mob below level 35 shouldn't be able to crit a 60, period, because of the skill/defense differential (unless the mob has a boosted attack skill, which is fairly rare, or the player isn't at 300 defense). While crushing most likely pushes crit off the table, IT ISN'T THE ONLY THING THAT CAN.

*Everything* can push crit off the table. Miss? Sure! Dodge? Yep! Parry? Absolutely. Block? Why not? And all of those are boosted by .2% per level difference...

I'm going to repeat: What the *hell* are you talking about?

...

How, exactly, do you propose that without recalculating the amount of table filled by the percentage when the table is expanded that the percentage will remain the same?

Crushing/Crit are converted from hit, that is, hit has to actually exist for you to buff them to crit/crush.

Think of it this way.

A Basic player's table to attack looks like this when attacking some random mob(This is PvE combat mind you)

5% Miss
60% Hit
20% Crit
5% Dodge
5% Parry
5% Block

The player gets a +10% Crit buff so the table becomes

5% Miss
50% Hit(Hit reduced)
30% Crit(Crit increased)
5% Dodge
5% Parry
5% Block

Now let's say the mob puts a -60% hit debuff on the said player, the player's table becomes

65% Miss(Miss Increased)
0% Hit(Hit Reduced)
20% Crit(Crit Reduced)
5% Dodge
5% Parry
5% Block

Without Hit, crit can't actually convert Hit->Crit, therefore Crit is reduced, this is the same for mobs as well.

Crush is just the conversion of 15% of a 63 mob's hit to crush.

Tt's determinatal to an attacker to suffer the loss of crit/crush before normal hit.

You're just dodging the question. You know I'm not talking about a level 35 here. Against a level 60 mob, you can't be critically hit with Shield Block active no matter how low your block % is. However, people have provided screenshots of being hit by a Crushing Blow by level 63 mobs while their block was below 25% but never a critical hit under the same circumstances.

[EDITTED]

If the reason the Critical Hit never occurs against a level 63 mob with Shield Block active is because the Crushing Blow pushes it off the table, how come you don't get Critically Hit against a level 60 mob that can't Crushing Blow and thus, can not push it off the table?

Assuming your defense is low enough to be critically hit in the first place...

Where? I also assume you mean when their block was below 25% while they were shield blocking.

61 mobs can't crushing blow...neither can 62, only 63, that is assuming you're 60 with 300 defense.

You can't get crit when you shield block because block knocks crit off the table. >_>

What are you arguing for exactly =o

Mippo, you're the one dodging the question. When you challenge widely held and proven beliefs, expect to get challenged and expect others to want to hear logic and evidence. Do you claim that block has priority over dodge/parry/miss or do you claim that crushing blows have priority over block? It has to be one or the other if what you claim is true, and neither one would make any sense.

Why would Block have priority over Dodge / Miss / Parry, that's just stupid and it clearly does not work like that.

Why would Crushing Blow have to have priority over Block? What if it's just the end of the roll so only high amounts of Block are capable of replacing it?

I'm just giving you the conditions under which your argument would make any sense. You argue that you have to have 100% block to push crushing blows off the table. Therefore, what you're saying is that dodge/parry/miss don't factor into it. Please explain how this is possible without either crushing blow or block having priority over doge/parry/miss. You're right that it's "just stupid and clearly does not work like that," so I'm not sure why you haven't figured out that you're wrong about everything you've said in this thread.

Yeah, you are right. Just replace 61 with 63, I made a mistake on that in my post. Point still stands though.

Very simply, they overlap. Shield Block would start from 1 -> 85% but dodge / parry / miss would simply be given precedence over it. If Dodge + Parry + miss = 45% then your actual chance to block would be 40%.

1-20% dodge
21-40% parry
41-45% miss
46-85% block
86-100% Crushing Blow

85% Block would be 1-85%, but the first dodge / parry / miss takes priority so it only ends up being 40% block.

Here is a thread that talks about this exact subject a bit further, with a combat log of someone getting hit by a Crushing Blow with Shield Block active.

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewt...hp?id=6435&p=1

Well this would certainly be a unique mechanic. Do you have any evidence for this other than a desire to explain the possibility of getting crushed while SB is up? Even if the combat log parses are accurate, which is certainly up in the air, everything (including crushing and crit) seems to be left with at least a tiny chance of happening regardless of conditions.

Yea I just slogged through that whole thread and found nothing to suggest that the "overlap" is any more than a weak theory. Before we start with the speculation on why crushes get through SB, we would first need to establish that crushes do, in fact, get through.

What's likely happening is that people assume that they always have SB up so they shouldn't be getting crushed, when in fact the mob could have an attack speed faster than 2.5, instant attacks or haste effects, and the tank could be suffering from user error, lack of rage, a -defense/stats debuff, mismanagement of global cooldowns, or lag.

Combat log parses have been proven inaccurate as far as order of events, so those are certainly inconclusive.

Yes. That would be called recalculating the portion of the table filled.

I know how to get a crushing blow while shield block is up... have the mob behind me. Of course this doesn't happen in normal combat, but there have been plenty of times when engaging a mob or trying to position it that with my laggy connection the mob seemed to be in front of me the whole time, but i still got dazed by him.

It seems more likely to me that evidence of getting crit / crushed with shield block up would come from positioning anomalies like this than a whole new mechanic just for the shield block spell. Occam's Razor must hold sway here.

It took 3 minutes, but here you go.

Something's screwy about this.

You gain Shield Block

You dodged another mob, he hit you for a crushing blow, which wasn't blocked, you dodge/parried 2 more attacks from additional mobs I imagine are hitting on you and, then it faded from you?

I feel like something was lost in transition.

You do know that the combat log isn't guaranteed to be in order, and that without timestamps your screenshots are pretty useless?

Fraps go!

We've already established that:

A. Even with timestamps, combat logs are unreliable.

B. You must be facing the mob, with weapon/shield unsheathed, among other things, in order for shield block to work. The screenshot shows no outgoing damage, so we're not guaranteed of either of those conditions.

A high resolution fraps in combination with a combat log parser is likely the only way to prove anything. Even if we can document 1 occurence, there are many things that suggest to me that everything has at least a .1% chance of happening (missing a special with +10 hit, being crit with 450 defense, etc), so even then it wouldn't prove anything.

From parsing loatheb logs I think the table looks like this:

. miss (miss chance vs mob - to hit)
. dodge
. parry
. block
. glancing
. crit
. hit

You asked for the evidence supporting my claim, and it was provided to you. The screenshots were taken today, by myself, hours after your posts and using the exact mob that was suggested in the thread.

The Crushing Blow is not next to the start or finish of Shield Block, but located directly in between the two. Secondly, it's pretty clear the mobs attack fairly slowly as evidenced by how few attacks there were before Shield Block faded.

I can understand with very fast hitting mobs that sometimes the combat log is not entirely accurate but you're trying to tell me that an attack located directly in the middle of Shield Block surrounded by extremely slow attacks is not accurate? That's a serious stretch. When Combat Logs are off, they are usually off by tenth's of a second so occasionally the attacks immediately preceeding or following an event can be rearranged. In order for this Combat Log to be off, based on the attack speed of the mobs and the location of the Crushing Blow, it would have to be off by several seconds which is extremely unlikely.

There is also a block in the screenshot so clearly I was in position to Block the attack unless you want to claim I waited until I saw a Crushing Blow perfectly positioned between the start and finish of Shield Block so that I could unsheath my weapons and conveniently block the very next attack all in the few minutes I spent at the mob.

I think this falls under that Occum's Razor thingamajig you were talking about earlier.

What was your natural block% for testing? Dodge? Parry? Def?

It also helps if you do not have additional mobs beating on you for the duration, that can screw up results.

I would have gone and tested this myself if it wasn't for my server being down until 2PM tomorrow