• Arawethion

I don't have time for much description, at the moment.

http://www.sigilguild.net/hamlet/Mage.xls

The first iteration is here; you can probably extrapolate most of what's going on.
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=6825

All this business about "cycles" is elucidated (maybe) here (post 14):
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=7732
and here:
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=7742

---------------

It's not at all polished or user-friendly.

Basically, you edit anything that's shaded on the first page. There are two parallel columns for you to run a comparison.

Cycles are "casting modes," described by what you do on a Clearcast or non-Clearcast. The one thing I'm currently missing is a way to automatically choose which two cycles (read my links; it's always two) are best for a given fight. So you can input, for each setup, four pairs of cycles, for which it will automatically choose the best. You have to look at pages 2 and 3 to see what the cycle numbers mean, in terms of spells.

A good way to determine your effective casting delay:
See how many Polymorphs you can chaincast on a critter in one minute.
Casting lag = (60 - 1.5*N)/N

---------------

Not modelled:

Cooldowns.
Rolling Ignites.
Cycles in which you use Fireblast every cooldown.
8/8 NW.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

• Arawethion

Its best use is to compute equal-DPS contours of various stats at your current level of gear. For example, for me, at Patchwerk-length fight, roughly:

1 crit = 1.3 hit = 15 Fire dmg = 11 MP5 = 20 Spi = 28 Int

A point in Arcane Med is worth about as much as a point in Master of Elements, which are both worth about half as much as a point in Elem. Precision. The most important point-for-point talents is Ignite, followed by Fire Power and Imp. Fireball, although it's hard to evaluate Imp. Scorch. Most points in raid Fire are pretty clear-cut.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

snape

The truth or falsehood of this statement lies entirely on your crit rate and your spirit value. When I did the Math for my admittedly max-out-damage build, a point in MoE is worth about 1.5 times a point in Arcane Med (for fireball).

 

snape

I also don't see how you could possibly make this statement, unless your Patchwerk attempt are 4 minutes and 39 seconds long and you have 3/3 Arcane Med.

Only under those conditions would the above be equal - if you had anything less then 3/3 Arcane Med and if the fight takes longer than 4:39, 11 mp5 completely dwarfs 20 spirit in practice.

 

• frmorrison

Depending on current gear, talent's power will change for folks, that is the point of creating a spreadsheet.

Yes, if you had more crit than Arawthion has then MoE should be better than Arcane Med, but would it be the same for another Mage? I don't know, that is why spreadsheets are around.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

• Arawethion

Are you remembering the effect of Spirit on the size of your Evocation?

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

snape

I most certainly do - and included it in my calculation; thanks for noticing.

20 spirit / 4 = 5 mana per tick x 1500% evocation = 75 mana per tick x 4 ticks = 300 mana added to your Evocation.

I have a Soulkeeper and a wand "of Spirit" to switch out with ItemRack on an Evocation event.

 

• Arawethion

I'll check for bugs--to be honest, that did catch my attention. If you've paid any attention to the inner workings, feel free to check yourself.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

snape

Nah, I did my own basic calculation, you can check the code I suppose. Here it is:

Claim: On a fight of Patchwerk duration - 20 spirit = 11 mp5

Argument: Let's compare. As said previously, 20 spirit = 300 mana added onto your Evocation (using the math there). In Patchwerk, you're chaincasting pretty much all the time, so you'll be inside 5 seconds almost always. Therefore, you get 20 / 4 = 5 x 0.3 = 1.5 more mana every 2 seconds. This is 3.75 mp5. (I'll run this calculation again later assuming full Arcane Med).

So, so far we have 300 + 3.75x (where x is the number of 5 second periods). Setting this equal to 11x (which is 11 mp5 times the number of 5 second periods), we get x = 41.38 5 second periods = 207 second fight, or 3 minutes 27 seconds (clearly, Patchwerk takes much longer than this even in the best case).

So, I thought, OK, let's assume he has full Arcane Med. All that does is change the 0.3 above to a 0.45, and we recalculate. We get 55.81 5 second periods = 279 second fight, or 4 minutes 39 seconds (Patchwerk still is much longer than that).

So something is wrong with the calculation if that is the result you get for a 6 minute fight, which I would say is close to the lower bound possible for Patchwerk - I suppose with full Naxx gear you could get down to 5:15 or 5:30, but I don't think 4:39 is really feasible.

 

• Arawethion

Can you check quickly how the numbers work out with 21 Spi and 10MP5, just to estimate my rounding error?

Also, you get 16x regen during Evoc, not 15.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

snape

Without Arcane Med: 264 seconds, 4 minutes 24 seconds

With 3/3 Arcane Med: 391 seconds, 6 minutes, 31 seconds (this is the only one of the 4 cases which seems correct, but the real question is: did you really round? did your spreadsheet include 3/3 Arcane Med? and if so, why are you specced that way? lol)

 

Maklar

I am assuming this is based off of the mana value and does not take into account the added crit from the int?

 

snape

If it was based off the mana value, then 15 fire damage would do absolutely nothing for you, except possibly shorten the duration of the fight, but it would only be by a negligible amount and surely isn't part of the spreadsheet.

 

• Arawethion

Nope, it computes crit% based on Int. Static mana bonuses just have small effects over fights of nontrivial length.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

• Arawethion

Correct, the spreadsheet makes the assumption that fight duration is a constant.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Maklar

Yeah, I had a brain lapse and was thinking ~30 int = 1 crit instead of 59.5

Does this take into account race ( <3 Gnome)?

Also, I believe using a mana gem triggers GC. Does it factor that in? *

*Clarify: What I actually mean is that I usually use it when I'm on GC (so after NW proc, or Fireblast). That way the time associated with using the command does not impact DPS. So assuming .27sec lag it would need to calculate using a gem/pot as .27sec instead of 0. Does it do this?

 

snape

Did you find out if you had that rounding error or if your code was wrong?

I'm not about to pore over Excel here at work...especially since half my time is using Excel anyways.

:(

 

snape

Using Mana Gems does NOT trigger the global CD. That's the real beauty of them - Mana Potions are the same way. You can hit gem and then fireball right away (I use hotkeys to do so).

 

Maklar

Yeah, I edited my statement to clarify what I meant. I'm sure you could macro it much like a combustion/fireball macro to help nullify the lag but I do not do so.

 

Chimp

I once had a pop at modelling rolling ignites, and failed miserably. I wouldn't recommend trying ;D

 

• Arawethion

Check the threads I linked in OP . . .

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

• Arawethion

Human only, for now, sorry.

Mana Gems don't take any time, although I have forgotten to take the 8sec off for Evocation, thanks for reminding me. Also need to do that to model Greater Dreamless Sleep.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

snape

Race? It is to laugh. Just look at your character screen, and put your Int in. No modifications have to be made based on race.

 

• Arawethion

Well, excapt that it takes in your total Int bonus from gear, rather than your actual Int from the character screen. Kind of annoying, but it was the easiest way to handle Kings.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

• frmorrison

He could have included the 5% more spirit for humans, since he plays one. That bonus adds up.

Gnomes have the 5% more int, but I don' t believe it stacks with BoK.

Anyway, since you have to enter stats, race doesn't matter (assuming the spirit bonus is counted as a buff)

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.