I know with certain FPS games, you can get live feeds of top clan games. Right now I think they are considering giving the option to spectate during the arena matches in TBC. I always loved being able to watch replays of top players. The reason a lot of these things are available though is because the information of a full match, or a replay, doesn't take up very much memory or bandwidth. Although I think seeing a raid, plus the hearing the actual vent at the same time could be quite entertaining. But then it starts to become more like TV than a game.
If nothing else, I think guilds should be allowed to let their standby members do something like this. Would make it a bit easier to help teach new people to bring to your raid.
I still remember, when I was playing Tribes 2 competitively, that the ladder matches were sometimes/often shoutcasted by what was, for all intents and purposes, a sportcasting team - play by play and analysis, who'd be logged into the server in ghost mode and go around watching what was going on. Since you could also record demos of matches (either the shoutcaster or from players, basically a record of movements and actions of all people - since the engine would then replicate the graphics from the lowbandwidth command data, these were fairly small, even for 30 minute matches), after the match was over, you could download the demos and the shoutcast and have action+voiceover to watch - quite interesting to observe a top team's strategies/tactics.
I think after I stopped playing T2, they managed to integrate a way to livecast the video the commentator was seeing, too, at a decent framerate.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Perhaps a tangental topic; but from personal experience we would have the hardest time explaining things on new fights, until we started making diagrams of it all. The precursor to the now ubiquitos jpeg diagram was a flash animation I made in a night of frustration over Mar'Li in ZG.
Perhaps a tangental topic; but from personal experience we would have the hardest time explaining things on new fights, until we started making diagrams of it all. The precursor to the now ubiquitos jpeg diagram was a flash animation I made in a night of frustration over Mar'Li in ZG.
We have Artpad renditions of nearly every encounter since AQ. I find it hilarious perosnally.
Perhaps a tangental topic; but from personal experience we would have the hardest time explaining things on new fights, until we started making diagrams of it all. The precursor to the now ubiquitos jpeg diagram was a flash animation I made in a night of frustration over Mar'Li in ZG.
We have Artpad renditions of nearly every encounter since AQ. I find it hilarious perosnally.
I made this Sept 19, 2005 (4 days short of 1 year ago)
I like kill videos and I don't see anything wrong with releasing them right away. I don't care how people choose to use them either whether it's for learning an encounter, demonstrating to new players or just plain entertainment.
The only negative I could see coming from videos would be a guild that manages a world first and releases a video immediately for the purpose of discounting everyone who follows them.
"You couldn't have done it without our video!"
That's stupid and anyone with an opinion worth considering would recognize it as bullshit.
The more fun any given fight is, the less fun I glean from the videos (With the exception of Sartura, I still enjoy her videos).
C'thun
Twin Emperors
Patchwerk
Noth
...
Watch a video, and what happens? You're bored to tears. Same story with Ragnaros, Domo, Nef.
What videos are exciting? The videos of stupid fights like Skeram, Golemagg, Maexxna. Fights where, while you're doing them, it's just a "grind it out guys, if you don't fuck up big time, and we have enough numbers, we'll win" (though PW would fit there too).
Broodlord makes a fun video because, while it's boring as hell in reality, every once in a while he'll run over and rape some poor warlock, and that makes it "oh my god, they're going to wipe, exciting". Firemaw makes a good video. Luci makes a pretty decent video. Hell, even Ebonroc and Flamegor make good videos (big dragon, cool animations, attacks tank).
As far as when the video is too soon: I'd say that release of a video is too soon before a "concensus" has been reached about the mechanics of a given fight (ie. Probably ~8-10 kills). Horsemen struck me as having their video released too early, KT definitely had his video released too soon.
I still haven't watched the KT video, though (I plan to at some point), and, to be entirely honest, the BR horsemen video bored me to tears (though I haven't done the fight, so I might be missing something really "cool" that's going on in the background).`
Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.
Just found a thread in WoW RnD (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...12749&pageNo=1) which is pretty much discussing the same thing, albeit in a less civilised manner. Here are Gurgthock's thoughts, I hope he doesn't mind me reposting them:
One of the most fun facets of the game for me, and a lot of other raiders, is approaching an encounter for the first time where you genuinely have no clue whatsoever what the boss is going to do. Engaging C'Thun for the first time in Feb. 2006 knowing nothing beyond "uh he's a big eyeball that shoots beams" was exciting. The original such moment came back in beta, in 2004: "Holy ****, Onyxia took off and she's flying!"
The fights are fun. Learning the execution is fun. But there's something to be said for being surprised and really putting together your understanding of a fight from scratch. At this point, that experience is the real tangible prize, e-peen aside, for "world firsts" or for being right up there with the world firsts. In WoW at this point it is a given that within 2 weeks of anything being defeated, a video will be out there. Thus, if you want to get that element of surprise, you need to get your kill within that window.
At this point I think people are long past really being surprised by video releases -- they are inevitable, and it's just a matter of who happens to do it first. Doesn't mean it isn't still a bit disappointing, because once a video is out, it means we took too long to do it ourselves, basically.
I agree, videos do spoil some of the fun. Having never watched a sapphiron video, running into his room, getting near raped by a blizzard then having a giant ice ball hit the ground and melt my face was pretty exciting :)
Then again, we play with an online community based around kill lists, and what guilds are on them release videos to gain more popularity. I can remember days when I walked around our server with my chest puffed out about getting a top 15 rag kill.(and beating the opposing Nz horde guilds to it) It's just sad when you see top guilds threatend by videos because it will help other guilds progress in some way. Is it honestly that important to see your name with less below it for that boss?
The BB, where being accepted matters
Originally Posted by Kazanir
This thread is hurting my self-esteem because I've never been hit on (to my knowledge) by a gay man. :/
Is it honestly that important to see your name with less below it for that boss?
Well, honestly ask yourself, would you raid as much as you do and work as hard as you do for it if there was no prestige attached to your accomplishments? And if there is prestige, there is competition. If there is competition, "winning" is the driving motivation, and videos are just a tool to that end. So to expect the majority of guild members to just close their eyes and go blind at fights instead of learning everything they can about it is, in my estimation, silly. Gurgthock said it best - if hitting fights blind is important to you, you had better be on the very top to beat the vids (which you guys are generally).
09/15/06, 1:38 PM
