Priests wear cloth and they approach me in armour, mail isn't anything really special. It's not as if a Frost Mage wants to get to max range either, seeing as Cone of Cold can be more effective than Crippling Poison for the amount it snares. In any case, Rogues are pretty good at dodging your Raptor Strikes and they're going to be sitting around with a ton more HP than just 2k when they reach you, even though you have more hp. Once they have you in melee, it's really hard to get out, extremely hard if they burn cooldowns. What happens when they burn Evasion and dodge your Raptor Strike and your Scatter Shot?

Then again, I don't even know why I picked up on this point because it's mostly irrelevant in the context of 5v5 arenas.

I'd be quite surprised given Blizzard's adversity to forcing target changes so far. Considering they are giving warriors an ability that sorta acts like a reverse taunt*, I don't see much coming in terms of controlling targets' target with growl. :|

* - Calling Intervene a reverse taunt sounds a bit silly, I just trying to imply the idea that the warrior can protect his/her healer (to a point) when it is obvious that said healer is the target of incoming attacks.

Frost Trap only has a chance to root if you spend points in Entrapment, and they fixed the "trap effect is always centered on the Hunter" bug in 1.12 so it's almost useless as a "get to range" tool now. Wingclip is spammable, yes, but you're ignoring that if you're in range to be spamming wingclip for more than 3 seconds, you've already lost the fight. Scattershot is on the same dimishing returns as Freezing Trap, which basically makes scatter + freeze last about 7 seconds total in a fight (not enough for ANY snare to wear off let alone for you to get to range and pull off a aimed shot). And, as already mentioned, all three cloth wearing classes have access to high armor cloth (fuck, the necro-knight stuff has mail level armor BASE) as well as large self armor buffs. All three cloth classes can equal hunters for armor value, and Priests can easily exceed it with high armor value robes and Shadowform.

Counterattack cannot be dodged or parried. :D And SS/Counterattack are 21-point talents, meaning you could have both if you wanted to really annoy people. Plus we don't know what the 41-point talents will look like for hunters - if they turn out to be mostly negligible for PVP, you could have people speccing 31 survival, 30 marks, and so forth.

Let's not get carried away into 'worst case current PVP drama'.

Just because a mage has better options doesn't mean that you have none.

My point wasn't that you hunters have better, or even equivalent abilities that rival a mage's. My point was that, if you do more than just stand back doing nothing but waiting for Aimed/Multi to cool down, you're not playing your class right.

OK stop posting, because you're just being completely silly.

Hunters said aimed + multi + auto is their only BURST. It is by far the one thing we try to do in pvp, is trio someone to kill them. This does not mean that we cannot trap, guard nodes, send pets after someone, eye of the beast to scout, scatter a caster, viper sting etc. IT SIMPLY MEANS THAT IN A WORLD WHERE WINNING OR LOSING IS DETERMINED BY WHO CAN PUMP OUT THE MOST BURST DMG, THIS IS OUR ONLY OPTION.

Standing back and pewpewing things is what a hunter does in pvp. If you don't understand this, please just be quiet. We completely recognize we have other skills but considering the original topic was PVP BURST AND HOW THIS MIGHT BE NERFED, we were trying to illustrate that in this spectrum we have few options.

Don't tell me how to play my class, since you obviously have no clue what a hunter does and considering you have failed to grasp the general point of most posts, can't read english either.

Edit: Sorry if that sounded really flamey, I hate people posting about how others can't play their class when they have virtually no grasp of someone else's POV.

Yeah but that world is quite unlike what the expansion will probably be.

Quoted for complete and total ironic self-ownage.

I heartily and thoroughly disagree with this point.

But, I agree with Probiscus, so I will concede the argument, for the sake of the humanity of this board.

Which begs the question - for a class that has relatively little interrupting ability(once every 30 seconds) and low-ish sustained DPS(compared to pretty much every DPS class except maybe a warlock who's facing a dispeller), what will be hunters' role in the expansion?

A question druids and shaman have been asking since BWL came out.

all my money is that blizzard wants to stack HoT's to give Healers free time so they can actualy see the fight and experience the game.

If/when scaling is added, it ought to be added such that a fully green-itemmed level 60's per is exactly the same as it is now. I.e. you only get a buff to your pet if you have gear better than that you arrived at level 60 with. If this is (and I think it is) a tacit admission that pets should have scaled to start with, then it ought to be "free" within our budget i.e. there should be no accompanying hunter nerf to "make up" for scaling pets.

The problem being, clearly, that if we give up say 25% of our potential as a hunter to get a pet, from level 1-59, and we still give up 25% at level 60, while our pet becomes less powerful on a % basis with every piece of gear that we achieve, clearly that usage of our personal budget becomes less and less good value over time. This should remove that limitation while not requiring any additional budget "payment". In my opinion (i.e. in hope rather than expectation....).

Funny, here I thought the original topic of this thread was Pets scale in expansion/Change in HoT's.

To be truthful, a lot of this theorycrafting seems a waste to me; too many unknowns. We know that hunter (and warlock) pets will now scale. We do not know anything regarding:
How will pets scale? -- Based on what, and in how great a magnitude?
What is being done to increase a pet's survivability, both PvE and PvP? -- How to not have the pet scaling wasted by instagibbed pets?
How will the pet's master scale? -- Will it be different compared to now, with more focus on pet?
Related, will the pet scaling affect the way the master scales as of now? -- Will the pet's master scale slower due to the pet scaling better?
Will our damage still be extremely front loaded, with a large gap between each burst? -- Will burst damage matter much regardless, with all the new changes?
How will our new talents and skills (and possibly mechanics revamp?) interact with this pet scaling and our concerns, both in terms of PvE and PvP?

We do not know.

Pets will scale in the expansion.
Interesting, I like using my pet when possible (and when not dead-tired).
Interesting, but doesn't really tell us anything we can base 3-4 pages of (PvP) ranting on. Of course, a lot of questions spring to mind -- there are no answers as of this moment.
Until more information is revealed, why bicker and waste time on this?
Anyway, on the PvP subject I agree with Lord BEEF.

What hunter Pvps without entrapment anymore? You can also have 2 Frost traps down giving you a pretty big area you can kite around. Also don't forget almost any 5v5 team will have a Paladin on it, meaning if you're getting trained on you have Cleanses and Blessing of freedoms to work with.

I know this has devolved into hunter PVP whinefest, but let's not forget that warlock pets are going to be affected too.

One of the leaked skills of the 41 point demon for warlocks is an innate 50% resistance to AEs, which will definitely go a long ways towards raid survival, but not do much if the mob cleaves or whirlwinds or spams single target spells.

I would love having a pet that scaled; I think it's a flaw in the warlock class that the best raid DPS spec involves killing your own pet, which is supposed to be a major part of our class. If pet HP/Mana scales with caster gear, and they somehow make their DPS higher too.. I think the warlock class is going to be overpowered. There, I said it. An imp with 2/2 improved firebolt can already dish out pretty significant damage until he runs oom, give it a larger pool and more damage per cast, and I can see the imp approaching 200-250 DPS. Combine that with a warlock spec that's heavy affliction or destruction, and you're looking at well over 1000 combined DPS on single targets, and much much higher for multi targets if you're shade. This does nothing to change the fact that many warlocks are forced into using a level 10 pet on end game raids however, and that will likely only get worse if the imp buff scales and the FR addition to it's fire shield is anything significant.