Tried finding this info from other threads but couldn't.

I'm a combat dagger rogue and am currently using tier 3 headpiece and gloves on boss fights instead of ACLG or Circlet of Restless Dreams.

I started wondering if I should use ACLG or the circlet instead to reach 310 weapon skill? Or do the stats from tier3 make up for the glancing blows I'll get?

Thanks for your reply.

Unless you have DS im moderatly sure that ACLG beat T3 gloves just about, however its not by a major amount.

Check the forums for the combat dagger spreadsheet and add in your gear, then test what yeilds you the highest DPS between the combinations you mentioned.

I don't have the required programs to edit those spreadsheets on this computer, sadly. I'm taking suggestions if anyone knows a freeware program to do that with.

I don't have a Death Sting.

http://openoffice.org

quickly checking mine, using Maex/Harb combo on the buffed total dps (inc 2/2 wepx)

T3 Hat + T3 Gloves = 737
T3 Hat + ACLG = 748
Circlet + T3 Gloves = 740

ACLG untill level the expansion provides better I guess :P

Allright, thanks a lot.

But would it be better than ACLG + C'Thun Belt?

plug it into the spreadsheet and see, honestly. Not sure why we need to answer these questions anymore given that the mathematics for combat daggers has all been done and short of new items being added, there's nothing more definitive than just taking Chalon's sheet and looking at the stats.

ACLGs + BoNA gives almost identical stats to t3 gloves + Muggers, so i guess T3 + muggers win because of set-bonuses from t3 and 1 more stamina.

Mugger's+BS Gloves :
66 AP, 2% Crit, 1% Hit, 36 Stam (without kings)
66 AP, 2% Crit, 1% Hit, 39.6 Stam (kings)

ACLG+BS Belt :
62 AP, 2.83% Crit, 35 Stam (without kings)
68 AP, 2.91% Crit, 38.5 Stam (kings)

Being alliance, I think the latter is better.

A bit off topic but still relating. (For reference my guild has killed 6-7 bosses in Naxx.) I don't see many Warrs or Rogues wearing Mugger's Belt, ACLG, or Edgemaster's Handguards. I'm a DPS Warr other than racial bonuses and Maladath, I think I'm the only one wearing any +skill items (I use Edgemaster's).

So my question is, in high end guilds, how many Rogues/Warrs who can take advantage of these do use them? Most, some, 50/50, barely any? Just wanted to get a feel for how prolific these items actually are for raid guilds.

You mean, how prolific useful versus hindering melee DPSers are?

The spreadsheet is there. "Free" software is there to use it with. There's no excuse for anyone to not come to their own conclusions.

Currently in my raid are 3 sword rogues, 2 with Maladath. 2 Dagger rogues, 1 with ACLG. And one rogue using Ripper/Veiled Shadows using some weird AR spec with no weapon specializations (We're unlucky with sword drops or he'd be sword spec) There's 1 DPS warrior using flameguards, I think he's 2H Fury.

I don't think any of the DPS warriors in my guild use Edgemasters, mostly too lazy to get them, but all of the rogues use Maladath/ACLGs/Muggers if they have them.

edit: warrior's using flameguard gauntlets not edgemasters. Typing during wipe recovery ftl.

Your 2H-Fury warrior should swap to Flameguard/Annihilation since the +skills on Edgemaster don't work on 2H-ers.

As for warriors, I've understood that as an Orc with Gauntlets of Annihilation I'm better off with those than Edgemasters with my double Axes setup. Same for Humans, the rest of the DW-ers should pick up a pair cheap, and hope the expansion fixes the weaponskill issues.

Looking at the DPS warrior spreadsheet, Edgemasters > Annihilation even for orcs with axes or humans. From what I understand, +1 skill ~= +1% DPS, so unless you're at +8 already (deaths sting + talent for daggers) chances are, the +skill items are better than anything else.

And for those people without access to the spreadsheet, for Horde: Muggers beats out ACLGs by about 1 DPS. for Alliance: ACLGs beat Muggers by about 1 DPS with Maexxnas + HoD.

Regardless of faction, Deaths sting + talent makes ACLG/Muggers not worth using over Bonescythe.

well no literally, edgemasters only work for 1h weapons, there are seperate skills for 1h and 2h weapons, this is why OEB is a surprisingly good dps weapon because it has 8 2h weapon skill on it.

Here's a question.

I've heard from varying sources several different things, but is there a "cap" on how much +skill you can get, and do racials apply to it?

IE I've heard +10 skill is the max, and I've heard both that racials either are counted as going towards the cap, or will count after the cap. (IE you could technically get +15 skill with a racial, OR that if you already had +5 for a type of skill, you only needed +5 from item sources.)

Anyone know for sure? The back and forth nonsense is kinda annoying :P

There's no cap per se, it's just that, above +10 skill brings little to no benefit. And yes, Orc/Human racials do stack with talents and +skill on gear.

Past +10, your glancing blows are hitting for full damage, so the benefit drops greatly but you're still getting the other bonuses (generally thought to be +.04% crit, -.04% dodge, -.04% parry, -.04% miss, -.04% block).

And thanks very much the two of you!

I was curious as to the exact issue about this, as when I was determining a new spec for my rogue after TBC I think I ditched a rank of weapons expertise believing +10 to be the cap (or at least a cap that means something). In this way I was able to gain +3, needing +7 but than able to pick up 5/5 seal fate in the build.

I haven't done the calcs behind it and I'll probably have to do that, but figuring I can gain approx 7 more skill somewhere in +swords, should be a-ok!

I was figuring if you were a human rogue, with say, hungering cold, you could get away with just 1 rank weapons expertise and then go 5/5 seal fate. (The end talents in combat really just don't appeal to me.)

Not sure anything really needs to be added but 300 skill vs 310 skill is 12% white dmg. Thus as Khalman wrote above 1 skill = 1.2% more white dmg.

I've wondered how useful Edgemaster's handguards would be on bosses like Thaddius were basically all of your main hand swings are heroic strikes, since your off-hand generates more rage than you can spend.
Same thing happens on Loatheb to a lesser extent, but is it really worth wearing Edgemaster's over GoA on these bosses? I think not.
It would only benefit your off-hand damage which makes up a very small part of your overall DPS.