Thaddius running

Astmathic · 09/18/06, 3:17 AM

Hi!

I would like some opinions on the 2 different tactics there is for thaddius, the circular/diamond run around or the simple run through. Which is best in your opinion?

Should probably say that Im playing on a new hardware server so lag shouldnt be a problem.

Best regards
Astmathic

haz313 · 09/18/06, 3:20 AM

run through is the fastest method

Copernicus · 09/18/06, 3:42 AM

Four corners has the advantage of pets sucking up chain lightnings while they DPS on Thaddius. It also minimizes disconnects and clipping issues- we drink a GNPP after moving back to someone who disconnected. Fire mages also avoid running directly through Thaddius for aggro issues and I think th erun might be slightly shorter.

Actually, I guess that's another question. What's the range on Thaddius' chain lightning, and is it a random target thing. I'm wondering if it's possible to position hunter/warlock pets in a safe location away form the raid to suck up like 15% or so of the chain lightnings.

Edit: Actually, if your raid is going from max melee position to max melee position, the four corners method is definently the fastest way to get to each individual point. It's the difference between the sides of a square versus going along the diagonal.

Jin · 09/18/06, 3:47 AM

We use four points because it allows us to kill disconnected people without harming the raid. Work's pretty well. Even if you're on new hardware, disconnects are pretty frequent among certain people and with this method all they do is lower the raid's DPS.

Astmathic · 09/18/06, 3:58 AM

Im a bit unsure about the four corners method but I have basically understood it as this:

Start in one corner, if you get positive charge move to the right, negative left. Next charge all with negative goes back to original position and positive to last corner. Next charge you go to the previos positive negative spots.

Is this how is should be done?

Another question, about using GNPP to soak up the chainlightning, good or bad? Does the chain lightning only hit the 4/5 closest persons?

Copernicus · 09/18/06, 4:03 AM

Neg1 ------ Neg2
|              |
|              |
|     Thad     |
|              |
|              |
Pos2 ------ Pos1

Raid starts in Neg1 and Pos1 after jumping down. If a person's polarity switches, they go across to the oppisite side. If it stays the same, they stay on the same side.

There will still be two groups, they will always be in Neg1/Pos1 or Neg2/Pos2.

Chain lightning targets someone at random and will pretty much chain to an entire cluster of people (I think it chains for 5 yards and can hit over 20 targets). Thaddius' DPS is actually the same level as Patchwerk, if you ignore resistances. So bring NR gear.

Nataliah · 09/18/06, 4:06 AM

Originally Posted by Astmathic

Im a bit unsure about the four corners method but I have basically understood it as this:

Start in one corner, if you get positive charge move to the right, negative left. Next charge all with negative goes back to original position and positive to last corner. Next charge you go to the previos positive negative spots.

Is this how is should be done?

Another question, about using GNPP to soak up the chainlightning, good or bad? Does the chain lightning only hit the 4/5 closest persons?

That sort of sounds right (I'm not good at picturing instructions :p ).

At the start, let's say negatives go left and postives go right. If your charge changes, then you move left. if you charge doesn't change, you move right. We don't think of it as positive or negative spot.

Jin · 09/18/06, 4:07 AM

Originally Posted by Astmathic

Im a bit unsure about the four corners method but I have basically understood it as this:

Start in one corner, if you get positive charge move to the right, negative left. Next charge all with negative goes back to original position and positive to last corner. Next charge you go to the previos positive negative spots.

Is this how is should be done?

Another question, about using GNPP to soak up the chainlightning, good or bad? Does the chain lightning only hit the 4/5 closest persons?

We don't use NR on this encounter as we need the DPS. We tend to ask people to enter with a GNPP and ask our glass cannons (3.1k hp :\) to try and pot when they get low. We try to spread the mages out throughout the groups so one healer doesn't get all the squishes, though that hasn't always been the case.

ninor · 09/18/06, 5:05 AM

Originally Posted by Jin

We don't use NR on this encounter as we need the DPS. We tend to ask people to enter with a GNPP and ask our glass cannons (3.1k hp :\) to try and pot when they get low. We try to spread the mages out throughout the groups so one healer doesn't get all the squishes, though that hasn't always been the case.

3.1k hp?! How can anyone at Thaddius be that low? I'm one of the lowest in our raid, and still sit comfortably at 4.5k.

I like the diamond approach, since I'm a firemage. Our first kill I did 380k damage, and I doubt I would have survived going into melee range.
With the addons out now, like AMThaddius, it's really easy to get everyone to move correctly with a diamond formation. No brainpower used on thinking about debuffs, simply move where the arrow and the sweet lady tells you.

Astmathic · 09/18/06, 5:06 AM

Thanks for the fast answers and help, myself I like the square tactic most but I feel that it might screw up since some people wont get it/move the wrong way...
Thats why the run through tactic work better. Though this Bigwigs addon with thaddius arrows would be of nice use in the square fight, always some people that need to be told exactly what to do :)

Morfina · 09/18/06, 5:12 AM

Having done both the diamond and the two sides strategy, I'd say that unless you have a very specific reason for going Diamond, don't go there.

We have everyone pop GNPP's as much as possible - 1 before phase 1 (or about a minute in at most, for the right side who might take an initial mana-burn when running past), 2 during the fight. Eases up healing quite a lot, especially since we were only 12 healers and 39 ppl the first kill (Well, 13, but one D/Ced right at start and blew amongst 20 people). We did use some NR on the fight as well (Well, some DPS did), and we spread out the hunters for NR aura - So our DPS could've been higher.

Rane · 09/18/06, 5:35 AM

We use the two-sides, run through method. It's easier to learn and we don't have many disconnect issues. It's hell if you've got some unstable people though who can't fix it themselves.

Sideways, has any other upgraded server cluster experienced a better Thaddius fight performance wise (in the EU)? The usual lag was totally gone last night and we absolutely BLAZED him down in 4 mins 24 secs because nothing took 1 second extra (huge boost to dps, imo). We normally did around 10% per polarisation, this time he was on 74% on the second polarisation already. And we still had two other Horde guilds in Naxx too, we normally wait til midnight when the place goes empty.

CrazyGamer · 09/18/06, 5:56 AM

In theory, I feel that the 4 corners strategy is slightly superior but ultimately it's about learning the encounter as quickly as possible so we've chosen left-right for the simplicity. If I were to redo it, we'd have gone 4 corners but we try to go completely without outside input on the first night of encounters and left-right was the most obvious strategy. With a night spent on that strategy, it didn't seem worthwhile to change it.

kais[bo] · 09/18/06, 6:05 AM

the 4 corner strat means that you don't have problems with slow pokes as much. also the people with down syndrome (roughly 50% of our guild) who keep forgetting what they have to do (and even don't get the gigantic BW tahddius arrows) can just stand in their position without harming anyone and when they get the polarity, they can run to the bunch with their color.
ofc that puts me in a bad situation cause i am also affected by being color blind and when thaddius arrows fails i actually have to watch my debuff (FFS this game is way too hard really :/ ). but anyway, 4 corners give you a LOT more room for fuckups/disconnects. its much harder to execute (hit forwards and strafe a bit on polarity change, stay if no change is slightly easier, but i'd still say its both 5th grade or something) but there are addons that pretty much show you what to do. we kinda forced ppl to install BW anyway a while ago, we wiped 2 days on thaddius and it seemed kinda hopeless with blowups and disconnects. then we swtiched to 4 corners, using the bw thaddius arrows addon for people that just didn't get it and killed him within 2h of trying the new strat. i'd say that its much easier that way.

Parappa · 09/18/06, 7:50 AM

as an aside: i can usually make 20 http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=6052 for the price of 1 elemental earth and 1 dreamfoil on my server. the cheaper the pots are the more willing people are to actually use them.

[edited spelling]

ninor · 09/18/06, 8:01 AM

Originally Posted by Rane

Sideways, has any other upgraded server cluster experienced a better Thaddius fight performance wise (in the EU)? The usual lag was totally gone last night and we absolutely BLAZED him down in 4 mins 24 secs because nothing took 1 second extra (huge boost to dps, imo). We normally did around 10% per polarisation, this time he was on 74% on the second polarisation already. And we still had two other Horde guilds in Naxx too, we normally wait til midnight when the place goes empty.

We have had the "battlegroup 3" problems ( basicly making it impossible to do instances on many servers in the same battlegroup ) on stormscale after the hardware upgrade, so it's hard to tell. 2 days after Curse and another big horde guild left the server they actually fixed it though, and we killed Thaddius without any lag whatsoever. First kill was with plenty of time to spare, 30 sec before enrage. It's hard to tell if it was because we are now alone in naxxramas, or because of some other fix :/

• Hamlet · 09/18/06, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jagermaestro

First charge: Positive Left, Negative Right
Subsequent: Same Charge Left, Different Charge Right

I find this method to be significantly better than the run-through method for various reasons that people have already listed. For one, since everyone is always vacating their spot, it's easy to tell if someone is lagging/sucking. For two, slow people have way less of a chance of wiping the raid, since if they get confused they can just stand still at their previous spot until they wake up and realize where to go =P

Does this strategy hurt your DPS, compared to "run through," due to the extra moving around?

Pyros · 09/18/06, 10:14 AM

More people move every charge, but you don't move as much(only a few steps to your right or left). Unless your guild is pretty hardcore and no one ever lags/disconnects on the encounter, diamond is probably better, even tho in the long run, with perfect execution, you might lose a bit of dps from having 40people moving each transition instead of only the people who change signs. Not having deaths probably compensate for this tho.

Lumi · 09/18/06, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Does this strategy hurt your DPS, compared to "run through," due to the extra moving around?

You lose some dps, yes. But the main challenge of Thaddius is accounting for general lag, lag spurts, and the ever common disconnects. If you find your raid group stable enough and your dps is still hurting, then I guess the 2 zone thaddius is better for your raid group.

Necronis · 09/18/06, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by ninor

Originally Posted by Jin

We don't use NR on this encounter as we need the DPS. We tend to ask people to enter with a GNPP and ask our glass cannons (3.1k hp :\) to try and pot when they get low. We try to spread the mages out throughout the groups so one healer doesn't get all the squishes, though that hasn't always been the case.

3.1k hp?! How can anyone at Thaddius be that low? I'm one of the lowest in our raid, and still sit comfortably at 4.5k.

I like the diamond approach, since I'm a firemage. Our first kill I did 380k damage, and I doubt I would have survived going into melee range.
With the addons out now, like AMThaddius, it's really easy to get everyone to move correctly with a diamond formation. No brainpower used on thinking about debuffs, simply move where the arrow and the sweet lady tells you.

Yeah, 3.1k hp is ridiculously low for any class at that level of pve progression.. oh and where did u get AMthaddius? - just curious

Artaxz · 09/18/06, 10:21 AM

We currently use a circular kill strat. Diamond is even more complicated imo.

One thing that may have enabled us to finally kill him was the use of this mod. Dumb? Maybe, but for a fight that requires 40 ppl to survive, every little bit helps.

Oh, and I second the use of nature prot pots instead of greaters...cheap as hell to make. Also, for those that can spare it, 100 NR unbuffed helps a lot.

http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/a...iusarrows.html

Note: you have to run bigwigs for it to work.

http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/a...1-bigwigs.html

Masq · 09/18/06, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Jagermaestro

First charge: Positive Left, Negative Right
Subsequent: Same Charge Left, Different Charge Right

I find this method to be significantly better than the run-through method for various reasons that people have already listed. For one, since everyone is always vacating their spot, it's easy to tell if someone is lagging/sucking. For two, slow people have way less of a chance of wiping the raid, since if they get confused they can just stand still at their previous spot until they wake up and realize where to go =P

This is the same strategy we use, worked awesome last night, and we killed him with 4 dead @ 50%.

EDIT: I saw AMThaddius mentioned, its a mod made by one of our priests, Chop. Kinda funny seeing it mentioned here :|

thebuddha · 09/18/06, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Originally Posted by Jagermaestro

First charge: Positive Left, Negative Right
Subsequent: Same Charge Left, Different Charge Right

I find this method to be significantly better than the run-through method for various reasons that people have already listed. For one, since everyone is always vacating their spot, it's easy to tell if someone is lagging/sucking. For two, slow people have way less of a chance of wiping the raid, since if they get confused they can just stand still at their previous spot until they wake up and realize where to go =P

Does this strategy hurt your DPS, compared to "run through," due to the extra moving around?

We use the circular strat and DPS was never our issue on Thaddius. It was always someone going the wrong way, dying to CL, or disconnecting.

The first time we kept 40 people up for the full 5 minutes he was dead. (Well we had ~30 seconds to spare)

The strat isn't 'optimal' for DPS, but it's much easier on people with bad latency or are just too god damn slow to move at the right time.

Necronis · 09/18/06, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Masq

Originally Posted by Jagermaestro

First charge: Positive Left, Negative Right
Subsequent: Same Charge Left, Different Charge Right

I find this method to be significantly better than the run-through method for various reasons that people have already listed. For one, since everyone is always vacating their spot, it's easy to tell if someone is lagging/sucking. For two, slow people have way less of a chance of wiping the raid, since if they get confused they can just stand still at their previous spot until they wake up and realize where to go =P

This is the same strategy we use, worked awesome last night, and we killed him with 4 dead @ 50%.

EDIT: I saw AMThaddius mentioned, its a mod made by one of our priests, Chop. Kinda funny seeing it mentioned here :|

Yeah, I just did a search on curse-gaming and he put it up hahaha, that's awesome.

I hope you guys enjoy it now that we've *tested* it for weeks wiping on thad >D

Astmathic · 09/18/06, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Necronis

Yeah, 3.1k hp is ridiculously low for any class at that level of pve progression.. oh and where did u get AMthaddius? - just curious

Offtopic:
Its probably because the progress at Vek'nilash has been insane. Windwalkers are in the lead atm of the original guilds being at 4h. 2nd guild in progress downed Thaddius last night and will be going for Gothik now I think. We are 3d of the original guilds and are on Thaddius. Server opened the 6th of april this year if I remember correct. Everything has been downed by guilds formed when the server started. Though now Curse has the furthest progress since they transferred here and just killed the 3h and the horsewoman. I dont count them really since they have a year or so in advance :)

3.1k hp is not a uncommon sight really on original guilds on vek. We just have had very little time to gear up everyone. (Bragging a bit maybe :P)