Was actually a 0.7 multiplier since it was first put in (1.3?), but it was changed in 1.12 to be a 0.71 multiplier when they changed the way threat-reducing talents/abilities worked.
If you really want to improve your overall threat per second Heroic Strike is the way to go with.
Just an easy example. Alcors Sunrazor (44-71 dmg 1.3speed), it does more tps than the Hungering Cold (76-143 dmg 1.5speed) which is for now the best tanking weapon in the game.
Using slow weapons will gimp your TPS alot, cause you mess the +175 threat bonus from heroic.
If you think you will have enough rage in raids to do all the stuff...well you don't ;)
In a 6 second rotation with a 1.5sec weapon you will burn:
15+15+15+15 = 60 (heroic)
15+15+5+20 = 55(sunder,sunder,revenge,sslam)
10 (shieldblock)
125 rage in 6 seconds...
To get so much rage u need to be hit for:
RageForGettingHit = damage / (1.5 * level)
125 = damage / 1.5*60 => 11250 damage in 6 seconds, thats 1875 damage a second...ouch ;)
skilling improved heroic and anger management is a plus, you gain 2rage in 6 seconds through anger management. skilling sunder is good, but u only do it twice in 6 seconds. If you skilled all the -rage talents you will need 20 less rage for the six second rotation (105).
well berserker rage gets you a nice buff. you gain 300% more rage when are getting hit, but it costs you 2x 1.5 second world cooldown to get it. still nice on caster mobs and for the beginning of a fight.
I don't think you're normalizing for agro threshold. As in, a warlock with salv and md-imp should have a higher agro ceiling because they need to go 1.3x over the tank's threat to steal agro, while a warrior only needs to go 1.1x over. Otherwise, good work. If you don't mind, I would like to include some of the number in my spreadsheet for comparison purposes so that dps nuts know their limits.
Zork - The problem with Alacor's Sunrazor (or anything faster than 1.5 speed) is that while you will get more TPS from just using Heroic Strike, you will miss a Heroic Strike every time you use another ability due to Global Cooldown (1.5 seconds). Missing a Heroic Strike just because you want to recast shield-block is Not a good thing. A 1.5 speed weapon is cutting it close, and you'd have to be mighty fast to get your HS queued up and then 'cast' another ability every time. I would say 1.6-1.8 would be ideal speed depending on reaction time.
Er. Since heroic strike is an on-next-swing ability, it's not subject to the global cooldown. Either heroic strike or cleave can be active for the next swing, that's it.
Since you mention it, shield block is not subject to the global cooldown, either. It's independent of the two above abilities, as well.
Note: There *is* another thing that happens with these abilities, but it's latency related, not global cooldown related. When you activate an ability, the client won't let you activate anything else until it receives confirmation from the server that the ability is going off. And yes, queueing H.S. gets around this. If you do shield block, then H.S. right away, it'll say "Another action is in progress".
The delay is equal to your latency to the server (i.e. one round trip time.) For me, that's usually around 300ms. If I do something like start bittorrent in the background, and run my latency up to 3s, everything starts to be a bit troublesome.
I didn't know shield block wasn't subject to global cooldowns, that's good to know.
However, the problem is that when you use an ability that does trigger global cooldown (I'll assume revenge and sunder, correct me if I'm wrong) for the duration of that cooldown, you can't trigger heroic strike. So with a faster than 1.5 speed weapon, you will miss a couple HS during the initial aggro when you're spamming your other abilities.
Looks good so far! Couple comments:
- you might want to add a checkbox for the +threat enchant.
- shouldn't threatmax include the threat from white damage as well (tps)? Threatmax (represented as htps + ssr) seems to drive all of the "Equals" values at the bottom, so I would think that it should be accounted for.
I didn't know shield block wasn't subject to global cooldowns, that's good to know.
However, the problem is that when you use an ability that does trigger global cooldown (I'll assume revenge and sunder, correct me if I'm wrong) for the duration of that cooldown, you can't trigger heroic strike. So with a faster than 1.5 speed weapon, you will miss a couple HS during the initial aggro when you're spamming your other abilities.
Warrior cooldown system is kinda intricate. Changing stances enables a 1.5s cooldown, but only for changing stances. Changing stances isn't affected by any other cooldown. You can queue up/use bloodrage, cleave, and heroic strike at ANY time. They are not affected by any cooldowns and don't enact any cooldowns. Shield block isn't affected by global cooldown, but itself enacts the global cooldown. Fun eh?
I didn't know shield block wasn't subject to global cooldowns, that's good to know.
However, the problem is that when you use an ability that does trigger global cooldown (I'll assume revenge and sunder, correct me if I'm wrong) for the duration of that cooldown, you can't trigger heroic strike. So with a faster than 1.5 speed weapon, you will miss a couple HS during the initial aggro when you're spamming your other abilities.
Warrior cooldown system is kinda intricate. Changing stances enables a 1.5s cooldown, but only for changing stances. Changing stances isn't affected by any other cooldown. You can queue up/use bloodrage, cleave, and heroic strike at ANY time. They are not affected by any cooldowns and don't enact any cooldowns. Shield block isn't affected by global cooldown, but itself enacts the global cooldown. Fun eh?
Yep, a rough outline:
You have the on-next-abilities Heroic Strike and Cleave that replaces eachother, but do not trigger cooldowns.
Shield Block is sort of the same, and does not trigger cooldown either.
Stances (or technically, shapeshifts) have a separate cooldown.
Taunt is unaffected by any cooldowns.
Bloodrage is on normal ability cooldown.
EDIT: However, what does limit your threat in real situations is not cooldowns. Personally I'm currently tanking with High Warlord's Cleaver (the slowest onehander available). The feedback I get from my raid is that I hold aggro better than the others, but that's not the point; even with a 2.9sec weapon I run out of rage in the vast majorities of fights when using Heroic Strikes, Shield Block, Shield Slam, Sunder and Revenge. I'm hoping to get a faster weapon soon (Widow's Remorse or so), but quite frankly I'm not too optimistic about the amount of threat I'll gain from that, judging by my current rage generation.
Ofcourse this differs alot from fight to fight, but usually the aggro-sensitive fights are also the ones you don't have unlimited rage on.
threatmax cannot include white damage cause heroic strike spam would consume all the white damage. heroic strike is special attack so no +weapon skill is needed.
like snurre said the warrior abilities are special some are on their own cooldown. sunder, revenge and shield slam all activate the world cooldown for instant abilities but not shield block :).
If you really want to improve your overall threat per second Heroic Strike is the way to go with.
Just an easy example. Alcors Sunrazor (44-71 dmg 1.3speed), it does more tps than the Hungering Cold (76-143 dmg 1.5speed) which is for now the best tanking weapon in the game.
While your reproduction of the base threat will be higher, the difference in dps between the weapons will work towards balancing it, no? That was my understanding of it anyway...
... also, reality is you can't light HS every swing while hitting everything as it pops global cooldown. There's so few fights where that's possible =/
I havn't done any math or data collection to prove it, but my experience is that if I start leaning on HS over my global cooldown abilities, my threat production suffers. If I hit HS only when I have enough rage to keep global cooldowns + shield block up, I hit best-case threat production. Just, so much rage lost from the white damage... and the white damage will be threat anyway.
What's the purpose of it though? There's little practical application due to rage limitations.
If you want some comments for improvement to assist practical application:
- add a calculation for incoming rage through damage. If you wanted to make it really simple, a simple field for average incoming damage per second. If you wanted to over-complicate it add a field to supply the mob's unmitigated hit at x delay + avg incoming non-physical damage per second. Add fields for the warrior's mitigation, the warrior's parry, dodge, block, and defense (for purposes of calculating increased chance to be missed/chance to be crit).
- add a calculation for incoming rage from outgoing damage. This would get complicated by heroic strike. You'd need to add weapon skill and mob level.
- add a toggle for shield slam/mortal strike/bloodthirst/none
- add an option for skill usage priority
- add an option for +hit
- add more set bonuses (wrath 5 piece, etc)
- add talent options for imp sunder and imp HS
Thanks Trinade for your comment. I added rage income already on my localhost but didn't uploaded it yet. I added a field where you can put in the incoming dps and i calculateted the rage from outgoing white damage through rdps.
do you know the procchance of the wrath bonus?
This calc cannot be the "eierlegendewollmichsau" ;), but i think it points into the right direction.
To comment "Heroic Strike activates World Cooldown" ... NOOOOO, Heroic Strike is a normal white hit +157 Bonus Damage it does nothing and activates no Cooldown its just a normal attack that costs rage, does additional threat and stuff (afaik!).
It works pretty well but you definitally need RogueSpam to deactivate all the "Ability not ready yet" stuff.
I use Shield Block on my own, cause i like to use it on special occasions.
I got a lot of questions maybe you can answer them ;)
1.) How much MISS do i have on a lvl 60 or 63 mob when using normal attack one-handed with shield or just shield-slam?
- afaik its 5% miss on lvl 60 for normal hit and slam, 5,60% on lvl 63 for normal hit or slam but i heard sth like every lvl higher than yours add 1% miss, i don't know if thats correct or not. you would need 8% hit for lvl 63% then.
2.) Can you only have a 99% hitchance, thus there is always a 1% misschance?
- humm...
3.) Does weapon skill reduce enemy block, parry, dodge by 0,04% per skill like defense does for us?
4.) How much parry, block, dodge does a lvl 60 or 63 mob have? 5,00% or 5,60% each?
5.) If i got zero +weapon skill. How much normal hits will be glancing blows against lvl 63 mobs and how much damage will be lost?
I think its important to fully understand the hit, miss, glancing thingies before you can add them to a calculator. to much rumors about that.
Wrath 5 piece procs on 20% of offensive abilities and reduces the rage cost of next cast by 5. Over time it sort of averages out as a rage cost reduction for offensive abilities by 1.
Eww @ one press macros. I hit everything individually as I like to exercise some control over what I'm doing, but to each his own I guess :).
1: Miss rate on lvl 60 mob is 5%, 5.6% on a lvl 63
2: You can have 100% hit
3: Yes. Each point of weapon skill beyond 300 reduces chance for mob to dodge/parry/block by 0.04%. It also increases your chance to hit/crit by 0.04%
4: Not certain. I'd /assume/ 5% at 60 and 5.6% at 63 (following the way chance to hit occurs)
5: 40% of white swings glance. AFAIK at 310 weapon skill it still occurs as a glancing blow, but the amount of damage lost to it being a glance is 0% (so while you lose no damage as a result of this glance, these hits can never be crits, thus placing an effective cap on your chance to crit). At 300 weapon skill your glancing blow will do 70% of normal damage. Each point of weapon skill is a 3% recovery. ie: 301 nets you a glance for 73%, 302 glance for 76%, etc.
the player dodge is genereated through base dodge (http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Dodge),agility, dodge on items and defense.
a naked dwarf has 76 agility and if i specced 10def i got 0,4 block, parry, dodge.
I get 4.2% dodge which is 76/20+0,4=4,2.
block and parry are different. if specced they get you to 10,4% parry and 10,4% block so there is always a base chance to parry from 5%. 5% base + 5% talent + 10 defense get you to 10,4% initial.
now to the interesting part:
afaik a caster cannot parry or block (except paly/shamy).
Well i guess its impossible to determine the enemy dodge, block, parry if its not a beast and hunters can see it.
dodge is made from agility and defense, parry/block are skills that a mob needs to have, otherwise he cant block/parry at all.
09/18/06, 9:19 AM
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