I will never understand the capacity for bad attitudes to affect how other people play a game. Is morale such an issue that you have people incapable of achieving the same results from a fight just because they're butthurt? If I were to call you a Noob, why would you let that effect you to the point of proving me right? Wouldn't your goal be to prove me wrong? I personaly don't want to raid with the kind of people that can't perform to (within reason) the same degree every time and actually want to succeed, the ability to not involve personal problems in your gameplay is one of the most important qualities in a raider for me.
At the same time, we play this game for fun, right?
If it's not fun I'm not going to be there. Bad attitudes = not fun.
DeeNogger: "No dot timer? Get your belt off, its spanking time."
Nothing Personal, But that guy's an Idiot and a Jerk, and you're a Carebear.
Someone yells at me like that, I tell them to fuck off.
This game is all about having fun the way you want to have fun. For me, killing bosses and experiencing new content is fun, I don't let other people interfere with that, whether it be assholes who insist on calling everyone names, or noobs that can't be bothered to notice they have BA on Vael for the 5th time.
So...Why didn't your guild take his obvious knowledge to heart here and change the policy?
For example, because if they have a zero-sum system, then it's ridiculously unfair to have some classes take all their T1 and others hoard up their DKP and not take their T1. :P
Why do you have a system at all if you're forcing people to take loot? Why not just do away with the loot system and give the piece to whoever you want to? Sounds about as fair as being forced to take a downgrade that costs DKP.
Originally Posted by Proeliata
Originally Posted by Taikero
Well, were they really ignorant? I mean, if a fellow Rogue didn't know a thing about Slice and Dice, I'd be tempted to call him ignorant too.
"Don't say all that you know, but know all that you say." There are many ways to say something. Just because someone doesn't know something doesn't mean someone needs to be rude and disparaging to them about it.
Okay. I won't yell at you unless you go above and beyond stupidity, true. However, if I see someone in a BWL or above guild anymore and see them making stupid choices or doing stupid things, it makes me want to pull my hair out.
I've seen someone Hemo with a Thunderfury, okay? These things shouldn't be happening, and these people should have their eyes gouged out. Attaining items like that takes thousands of man hours and that time shouldn't be misused.
Originally Posted by Proeliata
Originally Posted by Taikero
How does removing one person from the guild, especially your highest DPS mage, have to do with killing a boss whose only prerequisite is damage?
I'm sorry to say it, but I think what happened is your guild finally pulled their heads out of their asses and started doing the necessary damage. As for your future success, well.....I hardly find it logical that the removal of that one player has anything to do with your success, either on Vael or through AQ40/Naxx.
Convenient coincidence if it's a coincidence, isn't it? I'd think that the boss's only prerequisite is not just damage, but teamwork as well. I have seen raids with excellent players absolutely RUINED by horrible attitudes. My guild originally had some excellent players, but a large number of them were jackasses and couldn't calmly sit through wipes without starting up bitching. As a result, instead of progressing, we got to a point where we were downing Rag regularly, but not without wiping on Lucifron first.
Then we had a schism, many of the skilled people left. Our people now aren't all quite as good yet, but the attitude is so much better and instead of anger and frustration, they're learning and listening--and in many aspects, our raids are much improved, even though we have yet to rebuild to where we were before. Attitude can make or break these things, and nothing brings down attitude faster than some jackass going off on everyone in Vent all the time when he isn't even the raid leader, showing frustration and undermining what's going on.
Here's Vael.
*Tank pull and initial aggro*
*Healers heal MT and their parties*
*Everyone else DPSes*
*If someone gets Burning Adrenaline, they run to the designated spot without people around and die there, casting spells if possible on their way*
*MT goes down sometime during the fight. One or two offtanks have to take over during the course of the fight*
*???*
*Profit*
Vael isn't about teamwork so much as about DPS. If you don't have the necessary DPS, you fail. If you do, and you don't succeed, then something stupid happened. Example: Our MT forgot to remove Salv before Vael a couple weeks ago (Farming run, so I guess he wasn't paying attention), and we wiped horribly. Then we came back and did things right the next time...no problem.
Even if you get irritated by someone over Vent, it shouldn't make you a bad player all of a sudden. Sure, guilds can be ruined by conflicts between members, but working as a team during a boss fight has little to do with personal issues between each other. Simply follow the strategy and kill the boss. If you can't separate personal issues from "professional" situations, then it shows you're immature, nothing more.
And really, wiping on Lucifron if you can take out Rag every week is a little sad. I'd be yelling at people too. A lot. Very loudly. With much cursing.
So...Why didn't your guild take his obvious knowledge to heart here and change the policy?
For example, because if they have a zero-sum system, then it's ridiculously unfair to have some classes take all their T1 and others hoard up their DKP and not take their T1. :P
Why do you have a system at all if you're forcing people to take loot? Why not just do away with the loot system and give the piece to whoever you want to? Sounds about as fair as being forced to take a downgrade that costs DKP.
In a zero sum system without discounted upgrades, there are definite reasons behind forcing loot on people. In any loot system, there are definite reasons behind forcing loot on people, for that matter.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
The problem with not being "nice" when giving advice is that a confrontational attitude is often seen as pure hostility and not someone trying to be helpful. Good advice can be lost if delivered in an unfriendly tone. It may be situationally more effective, but the "softer" approach is less risky if you're not certain that everyone will take it well.
edit:- I'm not saying that ongoing idiocy should be tolerated, but part of being a good leader is understanding how people are likely to respond to stuff and dealing with it at the right time.
We forced Tier 1 on Mages for the same reason we forced Tier 1 on all classes: It encouraged raid-progression, and churned DKP so that people were consistantly moving next-in-line for items, instead of allowing certain people to hoard their DKP, and then buying out everything they wanted.
We never forced cross-class items because we wanted to give the players' some hand in deciding how they wanted to gear themselves out.
In hindsight, I would have negated that rule as well, and forced every item as an upgrade (marginal or otherwise) into whomever was next in line. The theory was: Hey. I'm a laid-back guild leader. I want these guys to have fun and enjoy picking and choosing the items that will best make them excel as a player.
In reality, they very quickly made stupid decisions (Shamans bidding on Drake Fang Talismans, for example), after having given no thought to raid progression whatsoever. After reading the EJ forums and having lived through this "Guild Leader" experience, I have come to learn some valuable lessons. The most of which is:
Some players can be really dumb. It isn't often enough to "educate" them. Sometimes you have to give them an ultimatum in order for them to see the light. Loot the appropriate gear...or step aside. Let the DFT go to a Rogue. There are 8 Shamans whispering me now for your spot in this instance.
Did someone hijack your account? How did you possibly last long enough to make over 100 posts on these boards posting like this? Why are you Capitalizing random Words? Do you realize that you just sat down and typed out a post featuring the words "carebear" and "butthurt"?
You have a valid point beneath all of that, but when you post like a ranting stereotypical hardc0re internet kid, that obscures anything you might be trying to communicate. Stop.
Nothing Personal, But that guy's an Idiot and a Jerk, and you're a Carebear.
Someone yells at me like that, I tell them to fuck off.
This game is all about having fun the way you want to have fun. For me, killing bosses and experiencing new content is fun, I don't let other people interfere with that, whether it be assholes who insist on calling everyone names, or noobs that can't be bothered to notice they have BA on Vael for the 5th time.
Bad Attitudes only affect you if you let them.
I don't like swearing (yes, yes, another "Carebear" trait), so I'd rather not have to tell anyone to "fuck off." For that matter, I'd rather not hear anyone tell me to "fuck off."
If that makes me a "Carebear," that's fine. I think the world would be a happier place if people were more "Carebear" if by "Carebear" we mean "polite and considerate to the best of their admittedly limited human ability."
So many people assume "HAY DIS IS TEH INTERNET LOLZ NOOB ITS NOTHING PERSONAL" (yes, I realize, that's my guild name, I didn't come up with it, move on :P). Please, tell me, where is the abysmally foolish codex of laws that declares "Thou shalt not be considerate and polite on the Internet?" Why does the anonymity of this game make it forgivable to act like a complete and utter boor?
I don't think it does. Which is why in my raids, I try to be constructive rather than insulting, and if I had a member in my guild who sat on high and repeatedly was insulting and derogatory to other members of my guild, he'd be on his way out pretty soon. I'd rather replace a person in a raid than make them feel like dirt. When I kill bosses, I'd rather do it with people I care for and respect and who care for and respect me, rather than assholes who only deign to be polite to me until I have a bad day and mess up on something. Why would I want to be in a guild where the members have no respect for each other?
Obviously, I'm not going to go write emo poetry over someone yelling at me on Vent, but nor do I think that that's a sustainable atmosphere for the long term survival of a guild.
Proe said it a lot better than I could. Explosions on Vent are going to happen sometimes, it's just the way things are. But when every single wipe becomes a btich and yell fest ... yeah, no thanks.
DeeNogger: "No dot timer? Get your belt off, its spanking time."
Did someone hijack your account? How did you possibly last long enough to make over 100 posts on these boards posting like this? Why are you Capitalizing random Words? Do you realize that you just sat down and typed out a post featuring the words "carebear" and "butthurt"?
You have a valid point beneath all of that, but when you post like a ranting stereotypical hardc0re internet kid, that obscures anything you might be trying to communicate. Stop.
I think that Boevis's underlying point is something over which reasonable minds may differ, but I would say that in general, attitude, maturity, and chemistry are *far* more important that play skill in determining the "succeedability" of a raid group or guild raiding force. Even if all your people are amazing players of video games, it's meaningless unless they can work together and have respect for one another that is born of *more* than just mutual respect for play skill.
In fact, I recall reading a post by Kaubel stating that this is indeed the reason that EJ doesn't recruit -- not because they are afraid of getting someone who can't play, but because they'd like to avoid getting someone whom they don't know well and who might not mix with their guild chemistry. Posts by Graham from over a year ago indicate the same thing. The personal chemistry, beyond the mutual respect of, "We are all good video game players," is what can make or break a raid group.
'War' is too small a word for what I'm fighting. Like a candle in front of the whole burning Sun. Now, I am not going to die today. I have other projects, and other options.
In a zero sum system without discounted upgrades, there are definite reasons behind forcing loot on people. In any loot system, there are definite reasons behind forcing loot on people, for that matter.
Why? I can see forcing a piece on someone if they're flat out gimping their abilities by not taking any gear for their DKP, but overall, if a person's simply ensuring they have first pick on an item they really want, who are you to get in the way of that? DKP is your reward for time spent helping the raid. If you want to spend it on that shiny item you've been dreaming about for the past year, you should be able to. If you really don't want a piece of loot, you shouldn't have to take it.
Originally Posted by Kerulak
We forced Tier 1 on Mages for the same reason we forced Tier 1 on all classes: It encouraged raid-progression, and churned DKP so that people were consistantly moving next-in-line for items, instead of allowing certain people to hoard their DKP, and then buying out everything they wanted.
I see your point somewhat, but only for raid progression, and only for those people who are gimping themselves by not taking those items. As it stands, Mage Tier 1 sucks something fierce compared to a good number of blue items. All sets actually have those one or two pieces which blow, or are outperformed by a similar item. Bloodfang Spaulders for instance don't compare in any way to Nightslayer Shoulders (except for looks..). Other glaring examples abound.
Originally Posted by Kerulak
We never forced cross-class items because we wanted to give the players' some hand in deciding how they wanted to gear themselves out.
In hindsight, I would have negated that rule as well, and forced every item as an upgrade (marginal or otherwise) into whomever was next in line. The theory was: Hey. I'm a laid-back guild leader. I want these guys to have fun and enjoy picking and choosing the items that will best make them excel as a player.
Cross-class items should never be forced on anyone. However, priorities should be placed on cross-class items as to which classes have priority over which other classes. I'll cover priorities below.
Originally Posted by Kerulak
In reality, they very quickly made stupid decisions (Shamans bidding on Drake Fang Talismans, for example), after having given no thought to raid progression whatsoever. After reading the EJ forums and having lived through this "Guild Leader" experience, I have come to learn some valuable lessons. The most of which is:
Some players can be really dumb. It isn't often enough to "educate" them. Sometimes you have to give them an ultimatum in order for them to see the light. Loot the appropriate gear...or step aside. Let the DFT go to a Rogue. There are 8 Shamans whispering me now for your spot in this instance.
Shaman bidding on Drake Fang Talismans...Ahh, this is even better than Druids or even Hunters bidding on it over Rogues/Fury Warriors.
There's very simple math behind it all. Dual wielders simply need a vast amount of +hit gear. Rogues and Fury Warriors are really the only viable dual wielding classes. Hunters can max out their +hit with simply set gear and enchants. They don't even need to supplement their +hit with DFT at all. As well, they only gain 8 AP from DFT over their version of the Royal Seal of Eldre'thalas (48 vs. 56), which is a very small upgrade, especially if they've hit their +hit cap in other ways.
Druids also have the ability to max out their +hit in other ways, but it is slightly harder for them. Aside that...Why hurt raid progression by taking such an irreplaceable upgrade over a Rogue/Fury Warrior?
I don't even need to discuss why it's stupid for a Shaman to be snagging a DFT. Get a Don Julio's, maybe a Band of Accuria, or even consider Signet Ring of the Bronze Dragonflight. Snag a few mail +hit pieces as well, and you're good to go. There is no need for a Shaman to take a DFT over a Rogue/Fury Warrior.
To round this out to a more generic principle...Prioritizing cross-class loot is perfectly fine. It ensures extremely stupid things don't happen with such loot, it allows people to spend their DKP how they wish (eventually if they're a low priority class, they can make such a decision if they want to), and it doesn't force anything on anyone, simply offering a suggestion of what might be good for their particular class.
Why? I can see forcing a piece on someone if they're flat out gimping their abilities by not taking any gear for their DKP, but overall, if a person's simply ensuring they have first pick on an item they really want, who are you to get in the way of that? DKP is your reward for time spent helping the raid. If you want to spend it on that shiny item you've been dreaming about for the past year, you should be able to. If you really don't want a piece of loot, you shouldn't have to take it.
If everyone has to take it, then you're just as much ahead in DKP as though nobody had to take it.
Why? I can see forcing a piece on someone if they're flat out gimping their abilities by not taking any gear for their DKP, but overall, if a person's simply ensuring they have first pick on an item they really want, who are you to get in the way of that? DKP is your reward for time spent helping the raid. If you want to spend it on that shiny item you've been dreaming about for the past year, you should be able to. If you really don't want a piece of loot, you shouldn't have to take it.
If everyone has to take it, then you're just as much ahead in DKP as though nobody had to take it.
If this was true, then people hoarding DKP in a zero sum scenario wouldn't be possible. You'd be "just as much ahead", right?
Maybe elaborate on the point you're making, because as you've expressed it, it doesn't make sense. If nobody had to take a given item, and didn't take that item, then they would have more DKP than whoever who took the item. I don't understand how taking an item makes you "just as much ahead" as those who don't take items.
The idea is that everyone has to take that item, so in the end, the items zero out. You can hoard DKP on other things though.
For example. Let's say that there are 4 mages in my guild. Let's say that in my system, Arcanist Gloves cost 75 DKP. If only one mage picks them up, then he's 75 DKP in the hole compared to the other mages. However, if every single mage picks them up, then they are all at the same level compared to one another. From there, if one really wants to save up DKP for a Choker of the Firelord, more power to him, he can hold back from picking up some other stuff. DKP hoarding is kind of ehh in my opinion though. Stuff will drop again.
In a zero sum system without discounted upgrades, there are definite reasons behind forcing loot on people. In any loot system, there are definite reasons behind forcing loot on people, for that matter.
Why? I can see forcing a piece on someone if they're flat out gimping their abilities by not taking any gear for their DKP, but overall, if a person's simply ensuring they have first pick on an item they really want, who are you to get in the way of that? DKP is your reward for time spent helping the raid. If you want to spend it on that shiny item you've been dreaming about for the past year, you should be able to. If you really don't want a piece of loot, you shouldn't have to take it.
I completely disagree with the concept of dkp being your 'reward' for raiding. Having fun, and progressing in new content is your reward. Your DKP balance simply reflects how close you are to being 'next in line' for a drop.
DKP is about fair distribution of loot, its not payment for the time you spent raiding.
If you let a nice armour upgrade get disenchanted because you want to stay 10 points ahead of the rogue with the second highest dkp so you can get some uber weapon, how does the raid benefit? The uber sword would go to SOMEONE in the raid, so if you get it, or the other rogue gets it it still increases the raid dps. But letting that armour piece go to waste DOES lower the raids dps.
The idea is that everyone has to take that item, so in the end, the items zero out. You can hoard DKP on other things though.
For example. Let's say that there are 4 mages in my guild. Let's say that in my system, Arcanist Gloves cost 75 DKP. If only one mage picks them up, then he's 75 DKP in the hole compared to the other mages. However, if every single mage picks them up, then they are all at the same level compared to one another. From there, if one really wants to save up DKP for a Choker of the Firelord, more power to him, he can hold back from picking up some other stuff. DKP hoarding is kind of ehh in my opinion though. Stuff will drop again.
There's a difference between "DKP hoarding" and not looting a tier 1 (or 2 or 3) item because it's just flat out not an upgrade. I.E. mage one has Bloodtinged Gloves when Arcanist Gloves drop. He passes because he has blue gloves that are better. Mage two is wearing Magister's Gloves, but he passes on the Arcanist because he wants to save his points so he can loot the next Azuresong Mageblade over the mage just behind him in DKP. There is a *clear* difference here, and one that any good loot system doesn't ignore.
The idea is that everyone has to take that item, so in the end, the items zero out. You can hoard DKP on other things though.
For example. Let's say that there are 4 mages in my guild. Let's say that in my system, Arcanist Gloves cost 75 DKP. If only one mage picks them up, then he's 75 DKP in the hole compared to the other mages. However, if every single mage picks them up, then they are all at the same level compared to one another. From there, if one really wants to save up DKP for a Choker of the Firelord, more power to him, he can hold back from picking up some other stuff. DKP hoarding is kind of ehh in my opinion though. Stuff will drop again.
Our guild hasn't seen an AQR since starting AQ40, and we started running it the day it was out.
Sure, stuff will drop again...Again just might be months upon months in the future.
As I said before, what if I flat out don't want certain set pieces? What if I only want 5/8 of the set (e.g. I hate the 8/8, and 3 pieces are either down or sidegrades)? Sure, if everyone's forced to take their set, then we're "equal", but then why are we using DKP anyway if we can't choose our own rewards? It's like going to the supermarket and having the clerk hold a gun to your head, making you buy a pack of gum with every purchase. "Buy this pack of gum, or you're not leaving this store alive."
I mean, it's your money, right? Your choice what you buy, right?...So why are you forcing the person to spend their money unless they've been hoarding it and gimping themselves, to bring this back to loot as opposed to crazed clerk at Wal-Mart.
In a zero sum system without discounted upgrades, there are definite reasons behind forcing loot on people. In any loot system, there are definite reasons behind forcing loot on people, for that matter.
Why? I can see forcing a piece on someone if they're flat out gimping their abilities by not taking any gear for their DKP, but overall, if a person's simply ensuring they have first pick on an item they really want, who are you to get in the way of that? DKP is your reward for time spent helping the raid. If you want to spend it on that shiny item you've been dreaming about for the past year, you should be able to. If you really don't want a piece of loot, you shouldn't have to take it.
I completely disagree with the concept of dkp being your 'reward' for raiding. Having fun, and progressing in new content is your reward. Your DKP balance simply reflects how close you are to being 'next in line' for a drop.
DKP is about fair distribution of loot, its not payment for the time you spent raiding.
If you let a nice armour upgrade get disenchanted because you want to stay 10 points ahead of the rogue with the second highest dkp so you can get some uber weapon, how does the raid benefit? The uber sword would go to SOMEONE in the raid, so if you get it, or the other rogue gets it it still increases the raid dps. But letting that armour piece go to waste DOES lower the raids dps.
Maybe it does. Still doesn't change the fact that the worth of the sword is more to the person than the chestpiece, and forcing the person to take the chestpiece is only going to cause a large amount of resentment toward the raid leaders and also whichever person gets that weapon. Even if that resentment is unconscious, it will exist.
The idea is that everyone has to take that item, so in the end, the items zero out. You can hoard DKP on other things though.
For example. Let's say that there are 4 mages in my guild. Let's say that in my system, Arcanist Gloves cost 75 DKP. If only one mage picks them up, then he's 75 DKP in the hole compared to the other mages. However, if every single mage picks them up, then they are all at the same level compared to one another. From there, if one really wants to save up DKP for a Choker of the Firelord, more power to him, he can hold back from picking up some other stuff. DKP hoarding is kind of ehh in my opinion though. Stuff will drop again.
There's a difference between "DKP hoarding" and not looting a tier 1 (or 2 or 3) item because it's just flat out not an upgrade. I.E. mage one has Bloodtinged Gloves when Arcanist Gloves drop. He passes because he has blue gloves that are better. Mage two is wearing Magister's Gloves, but he passes on the Arcanist because he wants to save his points so he can loot the next Azuresong Mageblade over the mage just behind him in DKP. There is a *clear* difference here, and one that any good loot system doesn't ignore.
Of course, what if the ASMB is a much greater upgrade than Arcanist Gloves?
I mean, yeah, it's a what if scenario, but that's how the person is probably viewing it. They're going for the largest upgrade possible.
You can't compare the ASMB to the Arcanist Gloves and say that it's an upgrade over them, they're not even in the same slot. :P Besides which, a good DKP system will also have an upgrade payments system in place. For example, if the T1 gloves cost 75 DKP and the T2 gloves cost 100, then picking up T2 gloves after T1 gloves should not cost you the full price of the T2 gloves, so while picking up the T1 gloves may set you back a little now, it'll be beneficial in BWL.
Besides that, Arcanist Gloves have +7 to FR on them, so really any mage thinking ahead should pick them up.
I mean, yeah, it's a what if scenario, but that's how the person is probably viewing it. They're going for the largest upgrade possible.
This is more than a little bit of a derail, but what the hell. We forced Arcanist on everyone. We forced ACLG on rogues when rogues thought they were worthless ("Devilsaur are better!") and oh boy, do I love to remind them of that one today. Anyway, our rule is and was that any upgrade will be looted, even if it's situational and even if it's not a gigantic upgrade. Not everyone can have the "largest upgrade possible" right away. If everyone behaves that way then you end up with a bunch of disenchanted gear, or one or two people who hate seeing things rot and will speak up regardless and thus end up without the DKP for any really good items solely because they don't want to see items wasted. If it's applied evenhandedly then it isn't unfair. If all mages are forced to take something, then hey, guess what, it doesn't affect the relative standings at all. Obviously this all assumes that the item is actually an upgrade, however small.
I mean, yeah, it's a what if scenario, but that's how the person is probably viewing it. They're going for the largest upgrade possible.
This is more than a little bit of a derail, but what the hell. We forced Arcanist on everyone. We forced ACLG on rogues when rogues thought they were worthless ("Devilsaur are better!") and oh boy, do I love to remind them of that one today. Anyway, our rule is and was that any upgrade will be looted, even if it's situational and even if it's not a gigantic upgrade. Not everyone can have the "largest upgrade possible" right away. If everyone behaves that way then you end up with a bunch of disenchanted gear, or one or two people who hate seeing things rot and will speak up regardless and thus end up without the DKP for any really good items solely because they don't want to see items wasted. If it's applied evenhandedly then it isn't unfair. If all mages are forced to take something, then hey, guess what, it doesn't affect the relative standings at all. Obviously this all assumes that the item is actually an upgrade, however small.
True, not everyone can have the largest upgrade possible. That's why usually when the person snags their "precious", they revert back into normal loot gathering mode and pick up all the things they were forgoing in order to maintain the DKP necessary to obtain the item.
Of course, if the person in question is constantly doing this, then there's a problem, and it must be remedied. I don't see anything wrong with a person (especially one with high dedication to raiding and the guild) maintaining that top DKP stance so they can obtain an item. Of course, sometimes with items of such value, it's better that the guild leaders make a decision on it (e.g. Atiesh/first Armaments and Regalia/first Rogue/Warrior pieces in Naxx/etc.) rather than have such issues arise anyway.
Love the ACLG thing (really, not sarcastically. Those gloves are the bomb). Did you even force it on sword rogues too (after dagger rogues of course), "just in case"? I suppose you did given the way you've described the way loot is handled.
And yes, I too realized how much of a derail this was last night, but.....I guess that's why this topic was made. We all have strong opinions about how to handle our "Elite" guilds, be it loot distribution or drama resolution, and that's what I think this topic is good for. It's broad enough to allow a conversation like this, yet also allows someone to discuss why Al Gore wouldn't make a good guildie ("I created the Internet guys, bow down and give me 1337 purples!").
I personally wouldn't like someone forcing a complete downgrade on me (and had no other use such as resists, etc) if I really didn't want it.
As far as being an Elitist Jerk, I think negative attitudes in raids can have a huge impact on people. Some people, like myself, always are giving 100%, even if someone makes a rude comment to me (which normally just forces me to work harder to prove them wrong). We used to have a bad attitude lingering over our raid for a bit - and then a post was brought up on our forums asking for everyone to improve their general attitude towards raids and not call anyone out in open raid chat (we don't use Vent). What we saw was a HUGE increase in not only DPS, but how much fun everyone had in the raid.
Granted, if your guild has 40 people on a raid who are going to try 100% of the time no matter what, then negative attitudes might not be a big deal like it was to mine.
09/22/06, 5:55 PM
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