What difference does pulling random statistics out of your ass make? Are you suggesting I just tell my guild, "I have enough gear to good enough in TBC, so I'm stopping now. See you guys in 3 months!"?
Sorry, sport. You're not going to convince me that shit gear is just as good as full T3 come expansion. Quitting now is just a lame excuse to either concede defeat in Naxx or become too lazy to better yourself and your guild.
No, I'm not suggesting that. See, you read my post, then start inventing things. It's pretty amazing. I'm saying that the reason to do Naxx is *to do Naxx*. For your guild. As an accomplishment.
The gear has been rendered so laughably irrelevant it's not even worth discussing anymore. Especially for healers, because, *surprise*, healing gear from Naxx is 100% useless in the expansion.
When you consider that anyone competent is gonna be level 70 in under 2 weeks, talking about gear that it takes you 3-4 months to get and improves your damage by like 10% over AQ/BWL gear that you already have is just ridiculous.
More stats, more ass, lots more embellishment.
I'm not arguing about something so stupid.
Originally Posted by Lyta
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.
If not for TBC looming, I'd be pushing to prep for them by recruiting up to 8 Warriors, making more of an effort to prioritize loot for 4/9 DN, and so on.
This is exactly the kind of thinking that has been getting my guild in trouble lately. Everytime we have difficulty, someone mentions TBC changing everything and it just totally kills our work ethic. Sounds like this problem is quite common. Yet, as much as it annoys me, I can't help but think the exact same thing. It's far too tempting to take a break till TBC comes out and then finish Naxx for fun instead of for gear. Most current bosses will be trivialized with even 1 level 61 tank (no crushing blows?) and it just seems like more of a headache than it's worth.
I guess most folks just aren't min/max'ers. Despite the fact that most of our gear will be replaced before the end of winter, the importance of a strong character going into the expansion isn't lessened in the mind of someone who enjoys getting every loot possible. If we keep playing as we always have, and end up saving ourselves a few days of gaining levels as a result, then all our effort was totally worth it.
Sorry I got testy, Sancus.
Originally Posted by Lyta
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.
There are going to be a ton of instances in TBC and I'm thinking it's not outside the realm of possibility to gain a significant amount of experience simply doing dungeons. To say that the tier 3 raid-centric gear is going to be useless for most classes when grinding to 70 is a fallacy.
Personally, I think levelling in the expansion is going to be really fun. From my own perspective, I had a certain group of people that I levelled with to 60, but most of them have quit or don't play as often anymore. Since then, I've gotten to know a lot more people really well from raiding over the last year and a half and I think it will be really fun to level with those people, since I never had the chance to before.
We never had the problem. We currently sit at a cleared spider wing, raz and noth down and we just downed c'thun last week and moving on to either patchwerk, heigan or ouro. We raid as hardcore as we always have been, and everyone is eager to beat naxx. I guess it is how you view loot and progress. Most of us want to beat naxx for the purpose of beating naxx, not to get awesome gear to lvl in the expansion with. If you think that way I guess busting your behind off in naxx to get some more dps isn't worth it, but what else would you do? Don't you raid for the fun of it? Would you enjoy farming beaten content for three months which you clear in 1-2 days and then sit in IF or Org scratching your behind the rest of the week? Since I am a carebear that's basically what I do when I am not raiding or farming. PvPers might have a different view on it.
I agree with both Falconius, and Bender. Leveling is going to be fun and different in the expansion, and if you aren't playing this game for fun... you're problems don't lie in your gear being "useless" for the expansion anyways.
I guess most folks just aren't min/max'ers. Despite the fact that most of our gear will be replaced before the end of winter, the importance of a strong character going into the expansion isn't lessened in the mind of someone who enjoys getting every loot possible. If we keep playing as we always have, and end up saving ourselves a few days of gaining levels as a result, then all our effort was totally worth it.
Although the point remains valid that for healers especially (and even more so in guilds which aren't cutting edge and can't be handing out AQ40 sets and +dmg cloth to their healers at will), keeping playing as we always have will not save ourselves a few days of gaining levels as a result and it might burn those healers out on WoW. We play this game for fun, not as a job. Min/maxing, yes. 24/7, no.
Keeping playing as we always have just for the sake of it will burn people out. Our guild is large, but for a while over the last month we began having attendance issues as regular after regular (mostly healers, oddly enough) began "taking a break" from the game. We've cut back our raiding time and progression as a result, and it seems to be helping. Numbers, and focus during the runs we do do, have been much better. Most guilds (especially Horde side) don't have EJ's huge base to draw on, you know. And it sounds from the above as if even EJ has had a couple of attendance hiccups due to RL intrusions.
For guilds not in line to kill either C'Thun or Kel'Thuzad pre-expansion, it seems pretty pragmatic to settle back, farm some levelling gear, and not push people to breaking point or huge farming efforts to get a couple of extra bosses down.
A lot of our guild, me included, have been using the extra time to enjoy some of this loot to pvp more now that there's battlegrounds all the time (pre 1.12 my poor 3:1 population server rarely had enough horde for an AV during non-peak times, and any pug AB or WSG would find an alliance pre-made in tier 2+ since they were the only ones who bothered to queue up outside peak times). It's a lot of fun, and that's why we play. I'd rather we went into the expansion all here, all having fun and refreshed for new challenges rather than three people left and everyone sick of farming consumables but only needing to upgrade gear at level 67 instead of level 65.
TBH I see the expansion as a big motivator to complete Naxx ASAP. I just know I'm never ever going to kill Kel'Thuzad unless we get it done before BC hits so I want to make sure we do. The gear can go to hell for all I care (or not, I love me some shiney). It's like killing the endboss of a singleplayer game. Why bother when you're just going to stop playing the game once you kill it? All that xp gone, all those items gone, everything gone. But at the end of the day, you're left with the satisfaction of killing the mofo and that's all that matters. ;)
Why kill emerald weapon or ruby weapon or any weapon in the FF games? Why kill dark aeons and worse in FFX? Why go through all the many (many many) bonus fights in Disgaea when you need to grind forever to even be able to last 10 seconds in them? Why kill all the side dragons and demon prince in BG2/exp when they don't advance the story? Because. If you have to explain why you want to kill a challenging opponent in a game you still enjoy, you're going about it all wrong.
Gearing up is the same thing. If there's upgrades to be had then you should be wanting to upgrade. Look at Diablo 2. People played that game to death in order to get items long after they killed the hardest enemies on the hardest difficulty level. Why did they need the items? They didn't, that's not the point at all.
Everyone says, "like oh em gee BC is in 3months!?! I'll plan a 3000 dollar non-refundable trip on that exact date of release to Blizzard Studios!". Wrong. In the legacy of Blizzard, hell in the legacy of all games ever to come out, has there not been that looming phrase? "Release pushed back to XXXXXX"
Why do you plan this stuff around a date that isn't set in stone yet........
Everyone says, "like oh em gee BC is in 3months!?! I'll plan a 3000 dollar non-refundable trip on that exact date of release to Blizzard Studios!". Wrong. In the legacy of Blizzard, hell in the legacy of all games ever to come out, has there not been that looming phrase? "Release pushed back to XXXXXX"
Why do you plan this stuff around a date that isn't set in stone yet........
Because Vivendi wants it out before the holiday seasons for $$$$
I'm the kind of guy that will buy his alt greens to make leveling easier. Not necessarily faster, just easier. I like being a powerful character. I don't care if I outlevel them in 5 levels!
For those same reasons, I want to have lots of naxx gear going into the BC. Who cares if it's going to be outdated, it was fun getting it, it was fun having it at 60, and it was fun leveling in it until it got replaced.
That's just me.
[13:49] <manly> buu: RIGHT NOW, ALL THE DATA WE HAVE IS 7.3% MULTIPLIER
[13:49] <manly> FUCK
We play this game for fun, not as a job. Min/maxing, yes. 24/7, no.
I have my doubts that one day, once and for all, we'll rid ourselves of the notion that anyone who is successful in a MMORPG must be an unemployed jarshitter who plays 40+ hours a week.
Originally Posted by Lyta
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.
We play this game for fun, not as a job. Min/maxing, yes. 24/7, no.
I have my doubts that one day, once and for all, we'll rid ourselves of the notion that anyone who is successful in a MMORPG must be an unemployed jarshitter who plays 40+ hours a week.
I worked 40-45 hours a week for the first year that WoW was out, hit 60 mid January, and I didn't seriously get hooked on WoW until after I hit 60. Formed a raiding guild and was MT for ~1 year and even had time to raid a night or 2 a week on my priest alt. It's all about time management, I know a lot of people who have full time jobs and are in 5+ nights a week raiding guilds.
Progress? Okay, I'm still on disk 1 of Chrono Cross, but I have promised myself I will finish it before allowing myself to finish Okami or buy Neverwinter Nights 2. I gave up on Titan Quest, because I had too many other games to play and I guess I really am tired of Diablo style games after all. Doubt I'll ever finish that one. Battlefield 2 continues to collect large amounts of dust on my shelf as I mourn the lack of any good and true Tribes game on the horizon. I hear they're releasing a new patch for Battlefield soon called 2142, but I've got too many RPG's left to finish on PS2 to care and it's still EA so screw that.
I hacked an EJ team into 07 Madden's franchise mode and they're doing quite well thus far in spite of losing our star quarterback (Gurgthock) for the season in only the 2nd game. :( This year's NFL season has been postponed midway through due to a distraction that is cel-shaded dogs and Psychonauts again, but I plan to let Wubwub run over some more people at the tight end position soon.
In all, I'd say I've worked through about a quarter of the backlogged games I have to play. At this rate, I'm going to have Final Fantasy 12 on my shelf before I've even broken the seal on 10, though.
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.
Having just joined a naxx guild with spider wing cleared + raz/noth and starting attempts on patchwerk, there has been talk of our efforts being useless due to TBC. However, most people have agreed that loot isn't the reason we push on--it's because we want to down these bosses. If you have guildies who are like "zomg, let's not do this cos the loot will be worthless in a few weeks," then slap the hell out of them. It's not about getting loot, it's about getting the bosses down. TBC isn't out today; you don't stop doing something because something new is coming out soon.
p.s. grats on 4H, and the loot that I heard dropped from the kill :)
I know me and my guild are pushing to kill KT, because we can be damn sure that once TBC comes out learning Naxx will be innefficient. Hell, depending on how th enext few months go for information, even farming Naxx may be innefficient compared to leveling.
'War' is too small a word for what I'm fighting. Like a candle in front of the whole burning Sun. Now, I am not going to die today. I have other projects, and other options.
But would we be justified in recruiting more members when we're already forecasting roster cuts for TBC?
That's the major rub for a lot of guilds right now I imagine.
We have about 5-6 regular warriors, and it's damned hard to recruit with the hook "Hey come wipe on the four horsemen with us, but you probably won't get to loot or see any other encounters before the burning crusade, or even raid with us period after".
Grats on horsemen though.
Edit - And yea, people that think Tier 3 and Tier 1 will have similar level experiences are dead wrong. The experience and the gear will give raiding guilds now a huge edge in level 70+ raiding and beyond, starting straight at Karazhan.
09/24/06, 8:20 PM
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