I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.
Am I the only one who thinks that Imp LOTP looks pretty sub-par?
Suppose for the sake of argument you have around a 20% crit rate and 7,000 health, which is what a fairly well-equipped bear might expect to have these days. That means on each swing you have a 20% chance to give yourself 140 health back. In other words, each swing gives you an average of 28 health.
Doesn't that seem a bit crap for a 3-point 31-tier talent? Even if it applies to your entire group (assuming it's an all melee group) that's still only 140 groupwide health per swing.
Am I the only one who thinks that Imp LOTP looks pretty sub-par?
Suppose for the sake of argument you have around a 20% crit rate and 7,000 health, which is what a fairly well-equipped bear might expect to have these days. That means on each swing you have a 20% chance to give yourself 140 health back. In other words, each swing gives you an average of 28 health.
Doesn't that seem a bit crap for a 3-point 31-tier talent? Even if it applies to your entire group (assuming it's an all melee group) that's still only 140 groupwide health per swing.
And assuming you are cat form that's a 1.0 swing speed. Which amounts to average healing of 140hp/s or 3x140 = 420hp/tick. When you consider that rank 10 rejuv (before +healing gear) is 198 hp/tick, that's over two Rejuvs.
Am I the only one who thinks that Imp LOTP looks pretty sub-par?
Suppose for the sake of argument you have around a 20% crit rate and 7,000 health, which is what a fairly well-equipped bear might expect to have these days. That means on each swing you have a 20% chance to give yourself 140 health back. In other words, each swing gives you an average of 28 health.
Doesn't that seem a bit crap for a 3-point 31-tier talent? Even if it applies to your entire group (assuming it's an all melee group) that's still only 140 groupwide health per swing.
And assuming you are cat form that's a 1.0 swing speed. Which amounts to average healing of 140hp/s or 3x140 = 420hp/tick. When you consider that rank 10 rejuv (before +healing gear) is 198 hp/tick, that's over two Rejuvs.
Not too shabby for a passive HoT.
It can only proc once every 6 seconds, or have they changed that already?
EDIT: Doesn't look like they have. So 2% once ever 6 seconds is the best you will ever do with this, doesn't look to hot to me.
Am I the only one who thinks that Imp LOTP looks pretty sub-par?
Suppose for the sake of argument you have around a 20% crit rate and 7,000 health, which is what a fairly well-equipped bear might expect to have these days. That means on each swing you have a 20% chance to give yourself 140 health back. In other words, each swing gives you an average of 28 health.
Doesn't that seem a bit crap for a 3-point 31-tier talent? Even if it applies to your entire group (assuming it's an all melee group) that's still only 140 groupwide health per swing.
Its not like it's the 41 point talent. It's at the same level as dreamstate, but it effectively is giving you ~30 health/5 instead, and in an aura for your whole group. Seems pretty powerful to me, but of course it depends on the encounter like many other abilities. Great on a constant predictable AoE damage fight like Loatheb, useless on a tank and spank like Patchwerk.
Am I the only one who thinks that Imp LOTP looks pretty sub-par?
Suppose for the sake of argument you have around a 20% crit rate and 7,000 health, which is what a fairly well-equipped bear might expect to have these days. That means on each swing you have a 20% chance to give yourself 140 health back. In other words, each swing gives you an average of 28 health.
Doesn't that seem a bit crap for a 3-point 31-tier talent? Even if it applies to your entire group (assuming it's an all melee group) that's still only 140 groupwide health per swing.
It's based on the group members critting, not you. It's also based on their health, not yours. The other physical DPS classes are going to have double that 20% crit rate, especially since they're getting 3% from LOTP already. Hell, even current hunters with our gimped 53:1 agi:crit ratio have 25-30% crit. It should be feasible to keep that regen going 75%+ of the time, for 15%+ health per minute absolutely free. With increased amounts of stamina in the expansion, that should be a signifigant amount of health. You could actually have a total of 9 people affected by it, too - 1 druid, 4 hunters with pets (not that many raids are going to bring 4 hunters with a 25 man cap, of course). That's a lot of manaless healing.
It's certainly not Nature's Swiftness, but it's hardly worthless.
Am I the only one who thinks that Imp LOTP looks pretty sub-par?
Suppose for the sake of argument you have around a 20% crit rate and 7,000 health, which is what a fairly well-equipped bear might expect to have these days. That means on each swing you have a 20% chance to give yourself 140 health back. In other words, each swing gives you an average of 28 health.
Doesn't that seem a bit crap for a 3-point 31-tier talent? Even if it applies to your entire group (assuming it's an all melee group) that's still only 140 groupwide health per swing.
It's based on the group members critting, not you. It's also based on their health, not yours. The other physical DPS classes are going to have double that 20% crit rate, especially since they're getting 3% from LOTP already. Hell, even current hunters with our gimped 53:1 agi:crit ratio have 25-30% crit. It should be feasible to keep that regen going 75%+ of the time, for 15%+ health per minute absolutely free. With increased amounts of stamina in the expansion, that should be a signifigant amount of health. You could actually have a total of 9 people affected by it, too - 1 druid, 4 hunters with pets (not that many raids are going to bring 4 hunters with a 25 man cap, of course). That's a lot of manaless healing.
I already went over this but if stamina is scaling raid boss damage will likely scale (at least on some fights) too. Just because the numbers are bigger doesn't mean the effectiveness will be.
I already went over this but if stamina is scaling raid boss damage will likely scale (at least on some fights) too. Just because the numbers are bigger doesn't mean the effectiveness will be.
How cute. I have my own personal puppy dog. He follows me around and keeps barking when I talk.
Yes, you've said that exact same thing what, three times already? We get the picture. I was posting mainly to correct the misconception that the healing was based off the druid's crit and health, and I've stated (three times now including this post) that it's not a major must-get talent, but rather a nice filler talent that's being IMO under-rated.
I already went over this but if stamina is scaling raid boss damage will likely scale (at least on some fights) too. Just because the numbers are bigger doesn't mean the effectiveness will be.
I thought they said they wanted raids to run out of mana more and not have 2 shotted tanks as often. If HP goes up, the effectiveness of this heal goes up. If mana capacity and regen do not go up as much as HP, then this talent will be relativly more attractive then it is now.
Besides, where it is in the tree it doesn't do much harm. You're already 31 in, you can still get NS, you have given up swiftmend.
No, it's not as good as straight healing. It's not as good as a rogue DPSing. But it allows for more versatility than only doing one or the other.
I like ILOTP for the simple fact that it's promoting druids being in form. It still gives our party SOME heals, and if it's coupled with JoL procs, it means that a druid won't have to constantly spam tiny group heals while staring at Raid Windows.
Of course, this is all speculation. Maybe it won't be enough. But maybe they'll adjust values, or the 6 second limitation. We don't know exactly how it will work in practice yet. All I know is is that it's a step in the right direction in terms of allowing us to do more than stand around heal.
EDIT: Bowled a 94. I kept throwing it down the middle, but only the middle six would go down most of the time.
I'm only going to put 1 point in ILOTP, and see how that works. Well geared rogues probably won't need anything more with their crit% and attack rate, and they're likely to be the class that need that healing the most. Plus, I can't really spare too many other points. Full feral FTW! :D
It's based on the group members critting, not you. It's also based on their health, not yours. The other physical DPS classes are going to have double that 20% crit rate, especially since they're getting 3% from LOTP already. Hell, even current hunters with our gimped 53:1 agi:crit ratio have 25-30% crit. It should be feasible to keep that regen going 75%+ of the time, for 15%+ health per minute absolutely free. With increased amounts of stamina in the expansion, that should be a signifigant amount of health. You could actually have a total of 9 people affected by it, too - 1 druid, 4 hunters with pets (not that many raids are going to bring 4 hunters with a 25 man cap, of course). That's a lot of manaless healing.
It's certainly not Nature's Swiftness, but it's hardly worthless.
Except raid boss AOEs aren't typically small increments. Cleaves and Rain of Fires for 2-3k are a more correct example, and if the rogues aren't topped off in 7 seconds or less, the next AE will kill them. ILotP does really nothing to promote a Druid to be in dog form in a raid setting, with pitiful heals for 120-200. Of course, this could change if Blizzard designs encounters differently in the expansion, which is doubtful.
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I already went over this but if stamina is scaling raid boss damage will likely scale (at least on some fights) too. Just because the numbers are bigger doesn't mean the effectiveness will be.
That I disagree with. You should measure how "effective" it is by comparing it to other heals, not to how hard the mobs hit. It doesn't matter if Illidan does 10K damage per strike. What matters is how much hp/s and/or hp/mana a particular talent helps you do. If it does well compared to other healing spells, it is a good thing. If it does well compared to other healing spells but not compared to how boss damage scales - well, in that situation we're screwed either way because none of our healing spells would do well.
Except raid boss AOEs aren't typically small increments. Cleaves and Rain of Fires for 2-3k are a more correct example, and if the rogues aren't topped off in 7 seconds or less, the next AE will kill them. ILotP does really nothing to promote a Druid to be in dog form in a raid setting, with pitiful heals for 120-200. Of course, this could change if Blizzard designs encounters differently in the expansion, which is doubtful.
They've already said they're designing encounters differently, and itemizing differently.
2k cleaves are a much different story when you have 5k buffed health vs 10-12k buffed health. As things are now, no ILOTP isn't much. As things look to be shaping up for the expansion, it may actually be a killer talent. At worst it's a nice filler talent.
I already went over this but if stamina is scaling raid boss damage will likely scale (at least on some fights) too. Just because the numbers are bigger doesn't mean the effectiveness will be.
How cute. I have my own personal puppy dog. He follows me around and keeps barking when I talk.
Yes, you've said that exact same thing what, three times already? We get the picture. I was posting mainly to correct the misconception that the healing was based off the druid's crit and health, and I've stated (three times now including this post) that it's not a major must-get talent, but rather a nice filler talent that's being IMO under-rated.
Your argument has yet to change either!
Regardless, I guess until we see the damage bosses are hitting Rogues for, neither of us are right.
Originally Posted by Zurai
Originally Posted by sadris
Except raid boss AOEs aren't typically small increments. Cleaves and Rain of Fires for 2-3k are a more correct example, and if the rogues aren't topped off in 7 seconds or less, the next AE will kill them. ILotP does really nothing to promote a Druid to be in dog form in a raid setting, with pitiful heals for 120-200. Of course, this could change if Blizzard designs encounters differently in the expansion, which is doubtful.
They've already said they're designing encounters differently, and itemizing differently.
2k cleaves are a much different story when you have 5k buffed health vs 10-12k buffed health. As things are now, no ILOTP isn't much. As things look to be shaping up for the expansion, it may actually be a killer talent. At worst it's a nice filler talent.
BTW, what's "dog form"?
This is exactly my point, are bosses going to be hitting for the same 2k cleaves? If they are, the fight is going to be extremely long or have some sort of balance measure to counteract the low amount of healing. If it scales with stamina, we're in the boat I'm captaining in this conversation.
You know, ghost wolf form. And druids have totems now too, didn't you get the memo? <_<
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's reasonable to expect that most of the game will be similar to what we've already been doing, so it's reasonable to create talent specs that aim toward those things. It would be 'bait and switch' if they radically shifted the game design.
I think it's also very likely there will be some encounters that will break the molds. Maybe a fight will require you to stand on a hot iron griddle and the entire raid will be taking steady damage. HOTs will win those fights for you. But those will be the exceptions, not the norms, because otherwise people will be complaining everything they learned in levels 1-60 is wrong.
If I were going feral for LOTP, I would definitely take ILOTP. Solo heal for grinding, you'll never have to shift out again!
most importantly for my warlord druid alt - what's the best flag runner build with all the new talents :)
Anything that can output large, and fast, heals yet doesn't lack armor, hitpoints, & Nature's Grasp; I'd think a NS + SM build (31+ Resto) with full Imp NG & Natural shapeshifter and Thick Hide + Feral Charge would be pretty damn good.
I am not your personal Frost Deathknight knowledge base. If you have a simple question, ask in the simple questions thread; if you have a more esoteric, specific, or complicated question, ask in the spec-appropriate thread.
My PM, WoWmail, and, especially, chat boxes are NOT the appropriate places for these questions.
Currently, Lifebloom gains a little more than half of your +healing bonus over the course of the HoT, and also gains a bit more then 40% of the bonus at the end (on the "healing bomb" part of it).
This is pretty interesting and possibly even overpowered depending on how Lifebloom actually stacks. The key is that, untalented, a spell with a mana cost of a bit over 200 gets (close to) 100% bonus of your +Healing and it's all used over 7 seconds plus it only takes 1,5 seconds to cast.
It makes Lifebloom easily the best scaling (single target) healing spell in the game. With +1000 Healing you'd get HpM of around 8,5. Of course, it's also the most awkward healing spell to use effectively, so it probably should also be most mana efficient.
Whether it really is a great spell depends on how it stacks. Does the HoT timer refresh every time you recast it? Can you recast it when there already is a stack of 3 on the target? Is the +Healing bonus on the HoT applied twice/thrice if there's a stack of 2/3 on the target?
If the answer to all these questions is yes, simply refreshing Lifebloom stack every 6 seconds (so the heal at the end would never happen) would mean some pretty serious healing. Again with +1000 Healing: HpM would be close to 10, HoT would tick for over 350 every second and healing done per casting time spent would also be higher than any other single target heal. That's all before talents.
Of course it's entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that the stacking doesn't work as described above. Perhaps the +Healing bonus would only apply once per stack for example. In any case, spell that seemed only a PvP tool at first could possibly be much more.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's reasonable to expect that most of the game will be similar to what we've already been doing, so it's reasonable to create talent specs that aim toward those things. It would be 'bait and switch' if they radically shifted the game design.
I disagree completely. Blizzard is actively trying to promote more strategic/less frenetic fights in both PvE and PvP, and they're trying to promote "off-builds". Their raid design is also changing even in the current view: Compare the number of tank&spank fights in MC and BWL vs the number in AQ40 and Naxx. I think it's reasonable to expect that trend to continue.
09/27/06, 3:16 PM
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