discofiend

I'm sorry for such a basic question that might have a very strong and swift "NO" as an answer. However, I've only played a rogue and a warlock, and only on alliance.

I'm thinking of changing up to a shammy for the expansion, as our guild already has 8 very active rogues, and I'd like to be more involved in fights. I'd like to make a bigger difference. While there may be more for rogues to do in a 25 man raid vs a 40, dps + some CC will not equal dps + sometimes tanking + healing.

I dont want to be stupid though. If that's a pipe dream, so be it, but the idea of an enhance/resto shammy really sounds nice to me. Snap aggro would be a significant problem, and perhaps it really is pallys who are designed to take this new role. Aggro generation over time in general shouldn't be a problem, being able to click off salvation, and not have the inherent threat reduction that rogues and non-melee-ranged classes do.

I've seen quite a few threads about enhance shammys as dps classes with utility (heal meh!), but none addressing tanking, hence my post. I'm assuming that this is because tanking simply isn't an option without plate-level armor and snap aggro, but wanted to find out for sure from the more knowledgeable people here.

 

Malan

Enhance shaman are not meant to tank, they are meant to kill things. Not because we can't generate the aggro, but because we quickly become mana sponges in mail armor. That said, can it be done? Sure, I've seen shaman tank Onyxia before - but only with plenty of dedicated healers on them. Best to leave it to pally/druids in the Xpack for off tanks.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

◊ Kalman

Once upon a time, it might have been planned, but it seems like with paladins becoming available to both factions, there's no real reason to make shamans into viable offtanks. How many tanking/healing hybrids do you need, after all?

 

Flubber

Actually its fairly reliable pre-MC. I've MT'd and solo healed Scholo, Live-Strat, and LBRS (doing both at the same time). I've offtanked in ZG (Tiger boss/Panther dens). I could probably off tank a Golemagg dog or a Flamewalker Elite.

The real issue isnt whether we could with our default abilities (Earthshock/Rockbiter/Lightning Shield/Anticipation/Toughness/Shield Spec), but whether itemization will let us. There is no mail with +def that I can think of, and some trash mob's in naxx can double crit level us.

 

• Navaash

Invulnerable Mail? Though its side effect when it procs is pretty bad.

 

Gyshall

WTB Rockbiter Totem!

It's my understanding that Shaman are aimed to be more DPS hybrids in the Expansion rather than Tanking hybrids like Druids or Paladins. Can't do everything well (although I have seen a Shaman using Styleen's, a Elementium Bulwark, Elementium Threaded Cloak, etc :D)

 

Nite_Moogle

Why would you want to be when you can be a rogue or mage in mail omg?!1eleven

Shamans make crappy offtanks, but I have saved more than a one wipe by earth shocking a loose mob and tanking it until a real tank got under control. Mail and a shield is still a hell of a lot better than cloth.

 

• frmorrison

A Shaman deep Enchancement with dual Rockbiter, Flurry to get lots of Rockbited hits in, and spaming Earthshock should be able to generate quite a bit of aggro, but then you wouldn't have the mitigation a Pally/Druid would have.

It could work out if you got the 10% to armor talent, put dodge/stam gems on your gear, and then used PvP armor with Resilience so you couldn't get crit, but I think a Pally/Druid are a better choice.

However, I think a Shaman is a much better choice than a Rogue to off-tank.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Kailhasa

This hit it on the head IMO. You're going to have quite a list (Warriors of all specs, Feral Druids, any Paladin with a shield...) to work through before Shaman shows up. I suspect that most Shaman are going to do about as much tanking as my Mage does. :\

 

discofiend

alright, thanks all. I was thinking about mitigation through AC and avoidance since a lot of mail has and probably will have agi on it, but i'd overlooked the rather obvious +defense stat, in retrospect.

 

Murgen

NO

 

◊ Boethius

Contribute or don't post.

 

Tzeni

The depth and information available in this post is astounding.

edit: Boethius is quicker than I =(

 

◊ Praetorian

A shaman can MT a 5-man instance decently well with the right gear/spec. Raid tanking? No. I can offtank trash when needed, and I do so in a support role, doing things like shocking cleaving aboms to peel them out of the middle of the raid until their tank gets unstunned and can pick them up, etc. That's not "tanking" but it's something a shaman can do.

Shamans cannot hold aggro in a raid setting without spamming shocks, and shamans don't have the mana/regen to sustain that for long. Also we obviously don't quite have the armor for it, though I run around with 7000 these days, that isn't much. We're less suited to the task than warriors, druids, and paladins. But hey, we had a multi-page thread about rogue tanking, so....

I also tank Baron Geddon when we do MC (it's been a while, actually) in 315 FR with Sulfuras, but that doesn't really count. :P

 

◊ Oggie

I MTed the caster emp for a short while......

um...it was intentional...really...*looks shifty*

Honestly, our aggro is -high-, and I've intentionally ESed a mob to drive up hate for the tank to copy (recently suggested by someone on these boards, though it does take timing and is not for the faint of heart). For offtanking for a couple seconds if it's headed for a cloth filled with warm and tasty treats, ES RB even in pure healing gear is suprisingly effective.

And of course we function pretty well as tanks through the 4 mans/20 man raids.

I wouldn't call us tanks though- more like aggro magnets that don't die COMPLETELY instantly...

 

Vazu

We had a shadow Priest tank Onyxia recently.

Edit: But yeah, mail armor & lack of sustainable aggro is the issue.

 

Murgen

Maybe you missed the first line of the opening post.

This is the same problem we have with druids tanking. You're stuck with either healing gear or damage reduction gear when you enter combat. If you're doing this in an effort to 'go the extra mile' for your raid group, the answer is a resounding 'No.' People might be interested in stacking DR items with mail as a fun experiment, but you can't consider it your job as a shaman in a raid group. You're wasting a slot as much as a rogue who wants to evasion tank Loatheb.

 

◊ Boethius

Nope. The first line of his post is what I like to call a "rhetorical question." Rhetorical questions don't need what I like to call an "answer." Seriously, you know better than to post one-line quips. Just be lucky I answered the report and not Kaubel-san. ^_^

 

◊ Lord BEEF

Shamans are great for tanking caster mobs that do shit for melee, like a lot of scholomance mobs, due to the low cooldown of earth shock, and grounding totem as needed. It's hard to beat a shaman for taking an enemy and shutting them up and pissing them off.

There aren't any real raid equivalent mobs though, they just hit too hard. I wouldn't be surprised to see them make some though with the expansion since both factions have them.

Check out my friend's bitchin' Lord of the Rings Art

 

Sicks

What about valid DPS as Casters or Melee though? As Alliance I haven't had the opportunity to see how well they perform in that facet, and I intend to roll Shaman for Expansion. Probably Enchancement for the benefit of the Rogues and Warriors. I've been lurking on the Shaman forums but there's a noticeable dearth of anything resembling solid information. If the Shaman class is anything like Paladins as far as attitudes go then I'm sure there's no lack of Shamans trying to dps it up. So how successful are they?

Wodin\'s cat changed my life.

 

Oaken

You can't answer that question, at least not post-expansion, with today's information (and if you are asking about Draenei then I can only assume you mean post-expansion). Blizzard said they were going to move Shamans towards dps-hybrids and Paladins towards tank-hybrids. Does that mean they'll be viable in a raid setting? Good question. No real answer yet because it depends on talents (which look ok though not stellar compared to, say, mages) and itemization (which we haven't seen).

 

Zurai

Anyone but priests, mages, or warlocks can easily MT 5 man instances assuming they've got good gear (not talking naxx level - MC should be fine). I've MT'd both strath and scholo, myself, and Hunters have no +aggro melee attacks.

I wouldn't expect shamans to be any good at tanking except in total emergencies in the expansion. That'd just be spreading their abilities over too many roles.

 

Lumi

We use shaman to offtank C'thun Trash (Post-Emp). I think that's a pretty common practice though.

 

Drukal

We did that once - one of our shaman had really wanted to do some tanking in MC, so we let him on some of the weaker/quicker to die mobs. Was quite doable, but something the healers unanimously agreed should never, ever be done again.

Shaman tanking is just a gimmick for encounters which aren't that strenuous any more - in the expansion there'll be such a long queue of people in front of us who are better suited, you'd need a seriously messed up raid composition to even consider it.

 

Pyros

If by offtank you mean, tanking something for 1 to 60secs until someone with 2k more armor picks it up, shamans can do it fine(the time varies depending on the difficulty of the instance). If by offtank you mean, tank the 2nd twin emps, probably not quite.

Shamans will be able to pick up mobs from other healers and casters onto themselves temporary, but quite frankly, they'd probably tank as good as a well geared rogue or hunter(more armor but less avoidance), and you don't really want those 2 tanking. Actually, those 2 could still somewhat performs their roles, while healing with a mob on you isn't always easy even with interuption talents.

From what they tried to do with TBC, you'll have warriors(prot) > feral bears > other warriors > paladins(prot) > other druids/other paladins > shamans/hunters pets/rogues. I don't think many shamans rolled the class with the idea of tanking anyway(even tho you find many retarded earth shock spammers with 2handers out in pugs ^^), while many paladins rolled the class thinking they'd be able to tank, due to other games depicting paladins as tanks(FFXI EQ and DAoC), so it's alright.