Generously one might say 10% extra threat, if you had Vengeance up 2/3 of the time. That would require you to gear for crit, with attendant losses in mitigation, hp, or +spelldamage. More likely 7% or so, and that on an unreliable basis.
I'd be surprised if adding that to Prot's already considerable threat was a difference maker on very many fights.
You really should do the numbers sometime, and compare them to bears and warriors. Building sustainable threat was always a paladin tank weakness. You will need vengeance.
Why? When you need to heal a single target, do you it's priest only? When you need to deal ranged damage, do you say mage only? I haven't heard a single rationale that makes sense for this. I'd be willing to grant Warriors better tank status by virtue of rage being superior to mana alone. But I see no reason why a Paladin who gears and specs himself for tanking (and loves doing it), gimping his healing and damage, should be 3rd rate next to the Bear and Warrior who can still DPS as well as tank.
I'd argue that a Prot-spec paladin can heal better than a Prot-spec warrior can dps.
I don't think Warrior damage potential even with a damage spec is going to be as high in BC as it is now. The current situation where Fury warriors can exceed rogue dps is the result of everyone being level 60 for two years and getting more and more powerful weapons without rage generation being re-normalized by leveling. I realize I'm stacking a lot of speculation up right now, but I think the intent is that Warriors be primarily a tanking class with dps capabilities being a secondary aspect of the class, and inferior to pure dps classes. If that's the case, then they really do deserve to be better at their primary role than anyone else.
Regardless though, it's pretty clear from the data we have that despite the buffs to Druids and Paladins, Warriors will still be the preferred single-target tanks. Whether this is "fair" or not is kind of beside the point: it's what Blizzard wants and they're the ones driving the oxcart.
I don't think we'll be third to bears though. I think it'll be a second-place tie with the winner depending on the situation. And in some situations we'll beat warriors even.
Ah, but Bears are getting massively buffed, and will most likely MT more often. Against hexing bosses like Jindo they are already good. But they'll also be good against lots of little hits, or against single big hits (ala patchwerk), especially with the +stam item budget change.
They'll certainly be great against the slow/heavy blows, but not against small/fast ones. Light hits favor shield blocking, which happens to be the basis for our Protection tree. And that dovetails perfectly with our superior AoE threat generation.
Warriors can use the same gear, and ahve more life, via natural stamina differences, and Vitality. And I doubt you'll be able to get away from stacking mp/5. DPS ceiling depends on how much aggro the tank is building. More holy damage = higher DPS ceiling = more mana used = shorter fight.
If you're taking 500dps worth of incoming damage (a pretty modest amount), you're getting 50 mana back per second from healing. That's enough to spam the current max rank Holy Shield indefinitely and still have a crapton of mana to spare. If you're taking 1000dps then you can spam HS and Consecration indefinitely and JoR every 8-10 seconds, and you'll still be at full mana.
Why not CC the group and take them out one at a time? Have a hunter or mage kite adds?
Why not do that for any adds anywhere? Not everything is kitable or CC'able, and we can be pretty certain that offtanks and AoE tanking will be necessary.
That said, I'd hate to see AoE gimmick encounters thrown in just to appease paladin tanks. This would just be like core hound packs for mages or tranq shot for hunters.
I don't know that I'd call AoE gimmicky. Some classes have abilities that do AoE damage, and there are occasionally large groups of mobs that call for AoE. If that qualifies as a gimmick, then isn't every situation where an ability is particularly useful also a gimmick?
Anyway, I don't think we'll be limited to just AoE tanking -- but I think AoE tanking will be the situation where the raid leader tells the Prot warrior to go dps.
I don't buy that line of reasoning. The Paladin can already tank at base with Righteous Fury, SOR, and a Shield. 1 piddly talent down deep in the tree isn't going to make up for any shortfalls. All it does is help gimp the build you are aiming for. If a Paladin wants to DPS and tank a little on the side, they'll spend 40ish points in Ret and 20 in Prot. I see no reason why 5 point talents should be buried deep in the trees, that do very little for the build the tree offers. Why have trees at all, then? I thought the idea was to specialize. It's like a painter taking 4 years of painting classes, and then 1 year of rocket science. It isn't additive to the end goal.
You can specialize, but only to a degree. Hardcore specialization isn't good for hybrids anyway; it defeats the purpose. Having the occasional "anti-specialization" talent in the trees gives us more freedom of spec. To use your example of the paladin who wants to go deep Ret but also wants to improve his tanking a bit -- sure, he could go 0/20/41 or whatever, but then he's locked out of Holy. Or he could take Deflection and Divine Purpose to get a bit of a tanking boost and still be free to go as deep as Illumination in Holy if he wants.
Other hybrid trees show a similar cross-fertilization -- the feral druid talent that boosts intellect, for example.
Actually, having Holy Shield would make SA worse. It costs you mana to use HS, and you block more often. More blocks = less damage taken = less HP to heal = less mana gained through SA. Will the amount be significant? I don't know. But this will lead to less gearing freedom as a prot paladin will need more mana regen than a non-prot paladin for tanking.
Spamming the current max rank of Holy Shield requires 24 mana per second, meaning you'd need to take 240dps incoming to be able to spam it indefinitely. If anything is hitting so weakly that it isn't doing that much damage to a tank, then it's probably not something you even need to worry about tanking in the first place.
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.
I still don't understand what you are saying. Demo shout adds x threat to each target that gets hit. Consecration adds x threat to each target that gets hit. Same idea here, just different values.
Wrong: demo shout adds x*[number of targets affected] to each target that gets hit.
Can you cite experimental data for this? I've never heard that before and I'd be really interested to see if it works out to be true.
I really like what they have done with shaman, dw enchancement looks viable, elemental spell dmg looks viable, resto ain't bad either. With paladins the tbc talents I have seen so far are disappointing because yet again the only truely effective pve spec is going to be holy. Ret isn't a viable pve dps tree and protection isn't a viable pve tanking tree. PvP with any spec is still fine but they need to put some work into making ret and prot pve viable.
The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.
First of all saying paladin is the best AoE tank u have to specify which encounters u are talking about.. Let me give u some examples.
1) Someone posted saying paladins are good for tanking adds @ frankris.
Lets just say it like this. When I was cookiecutter speched (I am a warrior) I put on my 2h, thorns retribution aura and full tanking gear and went TC, BS, DS, WW, SS, and cleave. With 2 healers on me total, all the mobs died and no need for any AoE or anything. So that means all dps can focus boss which makes the fight alot easier. I so far havnt seen a paladin being able to ditch out enough dps to kill them in time, not even with that special shield they all hold so dear :D
2) Another place for AoE tanking would be the small spiderpacks in nax.
The way we do these is with me (prot warrior) having thorns, retribution aura, sactuary etc and then running in first. Then I do one demo shout and rest battle shouts (that do more aggro if your party is close). Rest of the raid waits 5sec then all AoE at the same time, basicly everything dies and I never lose aggro.
3) Room up to heigan we do exactly same was as above and manage it clean.
Now I cant see anywhere else in nax where u would have to tank more than say max 2 mobs as a warrior and therefor nowhere where paladins would be better tanks then warriors.
Think about a paladin tanking 4 abom in abom wing alone.... Would not happen even with expansion abilitys without him either losing aggro or dying. A warrior might be able to do this though with mad heals if he gets 10sec before ppl start attacking and he is lucky getting off enough aggro before getting stunlocked :D
Basicly my point is this. If there comes situations where u got alot of mobs warriors can easilly handle em without the helps from example paladins so the statement of paladins being AoE tanks is rather invalid.
Ofc if your guild has n00b tanks that might only be able to keep aggro on 1 mob at a time this changes, but then again its the person that sucks and not the class.
Edit: Oh yeah Paladins should focus on healing which they actually can do quite well and not tanking or dpsing :P
Edit: Battleshout adds more aggro for each party membeer it hits NOT each mob that u get on your hate list.
Personally, whilst i am still unsure of the potential of a Paladin tank, aside from the AOE discussion this thread has explored, i think there are a number of other possible encounter types where a paladin tank could prove beneficial.
Depending on the mechanics of righteous defence, it could potentially be a very useful tool. Since it is cast on a person not an enemy, it could be beneficial for any untauntable bosses that require rotation. Furthermore with a 40 yard range, it could be very beneficial for any deaggroing blink type ability to get the mob back onto the paladin (ie Noth)
Secondly, whilst the DoT from SoV is not available for both horde and alliance, again for bosses like Noth, having the DoT stacked on them before a blink would be useful in regaining aggro.
Finally, paladins could be utilised against mobs which have a physical debuff which doesnt apply if a hit is blocked ie Fankriss. In similar gear paladins and warriors have similar block/dodge/parry/miss %. Warriors have 5% parry and block talents, whilst paladins have a 5% parry and 30% block talent. Thus the total % chance for a paladin to be hit/crit/crush and thus the chance to have a debuff applied is less. Furthermore whilst a warrior has shield block which reduces hit chance of being hit/crit/crush to 0. It cannot be used on consequtive hits. A paladin's redoubt on the otherhand means that everytime he is him, there is a 10% chance that the next 5 attacks will not be able to hit/crit/crush the paladin, giving them a far better chance of allowing debuffs to expire.
Aside from these encounter types, i'm quite a fan of some of the protection talents (so long as they rework the trees ;)). Argent defender is basically a 10% extra health buff with an extra strength helping of the 8/8 Dreadnaught set bonus (ofc it is a lot weaker if it only applies for damage taken when below 20% and not for the portion of damaage which takes you below 20%). Blessed Life is always welcome as further damage mitigation, and divine purpose would allow paladins a slightly different type of tanking gear, not having to stack defence as much.
Now all we need is for Divine Shield to not cause aggro loss for our very own shield wall....kidding of course.
Warriors cant hold aoe aggro? If you dont mean 500 dps 5 secs into the fight with 'aggro', we can; but I doubt paladins can do it better either.
Consecration Rank 6 does 592 damage over 8 seconds, before +dam gear, sanctity, and vengeance. With ImpRF (+90% threat to holy), that's 1124.8 threat per 8 seconds, or 140.6 tps.
Finally, paladins could be utilised against mobs which have a physical debuff which doesnt apply if a hit is blocked ie Fankriss. In similar gear paladins and warriors have similar block/dodge/parry/miss %. Warriors have 5% parry and block talents, whilst paladins have a 5% parry and 30% block talent. Thus the total % chance for a paladin to be hit/crit/crush and thus the chance to have a debuff applied is less. Furthermore whilst a warrior has shield block which reduces hit chance of being hit/crit/crush to 0. It cannot be used on consequtive hits. A paladin's redoubt on the otherhand means that everytime he is him, there is a 10% chance that the next 5 attacks will not be able to hit/crit/crush the paladin, giving them a far better chance of allowing debuffs to expire.
I think you miss quite important point here.
Basic chance to block attack from same level mob is 5%.
Vs single mob, warriors have absolutely superior block ability compared to the paladins. Any warrior can simply call +75% block chance on the next hit. Any warrior with 11 points in protection can can rise his chance to block 2 next hits to 85% total (base+talent+ability).
Compared to that, paladin with 31 points in protection tree got mere 5% block base, 10% chance to have extra 30% for 5 next hits and 10 sec. cooldown ability to rise block chance by another 30% for next 4 hits.
To simplify things let's assume that Holy Shield is always up. That's 40% static block chance total, with 10% chance for every physical damage taken to rise to 70%. Vs. standard single mob, it's basically 10% chance to proc. every 2 sec. or so. Which means, that with 10 sec. block buff duration it will be up for roughly 50% of the fight (usually less, but let's assume optimal scenario).
So, half of the fight with 40% block chance, half with 70%.
Warrior on the other hand, if he blocks every cooldown, have 80% chance to block 1 attack. If talented, chance rises to 85% and 2 attacks, which is more then enough to cover almost all standard speed (around 2.0) attacks.
Those numbers indicate, that paladin blocks can be superior to warrior only in situations, when active use of block ability is impossible (global cooldown used on other abilities - early in fight, regaining aggro, stance dance), mob attacks with faster then standard speed (1.0 speed attacks from boss?) or there are multiple mobs to tank.
But vs. single mob with standard attack speed (like mentioned Fankriss) warrior is better tank then paladin by far.
Now first of all I dont think blizz is ever gonna give paladins gear that matches warriors for tnaking purposes.
Also the whole point in a noth encounter is that u CANT taunt the boss and therefor makes your point invalid.
Third, U never really have a problem with a physical debuff so dont really care about that. This means your redoubt is really only a overall damage metigation talent since u rely on a proc and cant activate it yourself. Warriors shieldblock ability is (with 1 talent which everyone prot has) blocking next 2 attacks 100%+. Now the whole point of SB isnt to reduce overall damage done against u, its to be used retroactive after a crushing blow to minimize burst damage done against u which is the ONLY way u die as a tank. Noone really cares about the overall damage, and since paladins doesnt have an ability they can activate to stop spike damage warriors will always be better.
But 41 Ret will still have Deflection and Divine Purpose availble, neither of which are shabby at all. It won't have the mana efficiency of 41 Prot, but it should be quite capable of functioning in an OT role with the right gear.
Indeed, I would argue that 41 ret will have better and more consistent threat output than relying on holy shield, better mana-efficiency on damage (I doubt spiritual attunement = infinite mana, especially in tanking gear instead of regen gear, although obviously it's huge), and a raid-benefit for existing (sanctified crusader). Deflection is obviously good and Divine Purpose actually provides something warriors don't have which is good for tanking, ie. an innate ability to be crit less, and possibly be crit not at all without too much help from gear. 41 ret also has Improved Sanctity Aura.
What does prot provide after 17 points? Sanctuary (ok). Holy Shield (ret stuff is better threat). Ardent Defender (gimmick ability; was discussed in the previous thread, it just doesn't seem very useful). Captain America (ooh).
They really need to shift Deflection and Divine Purpose over to Prot and put Reckoning into Ret if thy're serious about prot and ret pallies having raid roles. The trees are a bit too mixed right now.
I think you missed my point slightly. I am talking about the ability to avoid and remove physical debuffs. Yes i know that the base block rate against an even level mob is 5%, but parry's, dodge's and misses should also be counted. Both warriors and paladins could easily reach 40% change to parry/dodge/block/miss. This means with Holy shield and reboubt for a paladin, or for shield block for a warrior, both can reach 100% chance of not being hit/crit/crushed, and thus not get more debuffs stacked/refreshed.
The benefit of paladins over warriors is when redoubt procs, the next 5 hits are guarenteed not to refresh/stack any additional debuffs. Due to the different mechanics of shield block, warriors can still block a lot, but cant keep it up for 5 attacks in a row. So paladins will have a better chance of debuffs falling off them.
Jedic:
First off, we have no idea if paladins will get tanking gear equivalent to warriors. It's up to blizzards, and my post was assuming we had access to decent tanking gear
How does Noth being untauntable make my point invalid. I said for bosses that are untauntable, since our taunt is applied to a player not a mob then it may well be the case that it is not resistable, and thus allows an aggro swap for bosses where taunt doesnt work. Kinda makes the point highly valid in actuallity.
You say we "don't really have a problem with a physical debuff so don't really care about that". Well to be honest, before Loatheb i didnt really have a problem with the amount of shadow damage i took, so didn't really care about Greater shadow protection potions. Get my point? We dont know what blizzard is planning in terms of boss design, but if they want paladins to tank it would make sense to design bosses where we are beneficial tanks, so could make us care about physical debuffs.
And the point of not knowing what blizzard is planning makes the comment that having no damage spike avoidance ability makes us poor tanks is a little naive. If Blizzard wants paladins to tank then they will make encounters where the tanking style differences between paladins and warriors are advantageous for the paladin. They're not going to make a encounter they plan a paladin to tank and decide the use of shield block is necessary for it.
Bellator:
Well first of all u said fights where bosses were tauntable and then referred to noth style fights. I was trying to point out that Noth style fights are made around the fact u cant taunt the boss otherwise it would be to easy (not that its hard now or anything).
Also warriors get the intervene ability or whats it called that runs to an friendly player and takes the next attack meant for him and then u can taunt so we can basicly do the same as u there.
Dont think that your new ability will work on untauntable bosses either really. This would make for alot of abuse and kiting of bosses etc since your "taunt" is 40 yards range?
Also dont think blizz is gonna go and totally change the way boss fights are done so its pretty safe to assume that its still gonna be spike damage that is gonna be the killer.
Regarding physical debuffs I cant ontop of my head recall any bosses that has one, so please enlighten me here.
EDIT: Since blizzard is not gonna make a hybrid class as good a tank as a warrior its pretty safe to assume imo that druids and paladins will only be functioning as tank in situations where u might lack a warrior.
Jedic:
I thought i mentioned untauntable bosses when i was talking about the Noth enounter. Intervene/taunt would not work on untauntable bosses, but righteous defender has the potential of working. I realise it may not work on untauntable bosses due to potential abuse, but this could easily be overcome with a few minor tweaks.
When i said physical debuffs, may not be the correct phrasing. I mean debuffs that can't apply on blocked attacks such as Mortal Strike, Fankriss's debuff, possibly Gluth's debuff.
You say Blizzard isn't going to change the way fights work, and that spike damage will still be the killer. Consider Naxxramas. Grobbulus, Thaddius, Anub'rakan, Noth, Heingan, Loatheb, Razuvious, Gothik, Four Horsemen. That's 9 out of 13 boss fights in Naxx where i would say that spike damage is not the killer, and thus shield block alone would not prove that much of a difference.
Why do you say that blizz wouldn't make a hybrid tank as good a tank as a warriors? Surely, for certain encounters there would be no harm in making paladins the best tank option. Warriors themselves are a hybrid, being able to tank everything as well as being the best dps class in certain encounters. If warriors can situationally be the best dps class of choice why couldnt paladins in certain situations be made to be the best tank of choice?
Mortal wounds are physical debuffs, however I'm not sure blocking them has any effect(I mean, having shield block up won't prevent it from hitting you). Maybe it does tho, I don't have evidence.
As for the rest of the conversation, having 50% block over the course of a fight is enough to guarantee no crushing. Paladins can get close to 50% sustained shield blocks by chaining abilities, because they come in "streaks". Warriors will have a few times when shield blocks get eaten by instant attacks right after you turn it on, and then 1 or 2 hits before the cooldown is up. Why 50% is enough? Cause you have 50% total avoidance in tanking gear. 20+% dodge, 20%parry, 7-8%miss.(at least that what you have currently, might change in the expansion). So you really only need to block all the other attacks, and the streak aspect of paladin blocks make it easier not to miss any blocks than the 2blocks warriors get.
AE tanking... Well those consecration numbers are impressive, but I think warriors do pretty good on AE tanking too, since defiance works on the shouts and you have a bit more "control" as to what you target. You can move between applications of demo shouts to adjust, while you have to consecrate on the right spot or else mobs won't get hit by the whole thing.
Finally anecdotic stuff, for fankriss, don't see the reason you'd use a 2hander and actually kill bugs. It looked better when I tanked them with a shield in full tanking gear, with only one healer casting rejuvs on me and swiftmending when I had to move to pick up additional mobs. Makes room for mad healing dps(yay lighting bolts) which makes the kill faster. However, even tho fankriss is a good example of AE tanking, it's somewhat a trivial fight, even for a normal geared guild. It takes you like 1 or 2days of tries to get him down, in comparison I think sartura would be harder to learn(at least on horde without ZOMG EZ MODE RANGED STUNNING HAMMERS OF GREAT JUSTICE). Gluth might be a better example, but it's AE kiting, not AE tanking, so it's not like you can compare warriors and paladins on that. Hunters and mages can do it too ^^
Bellator:
I think I read several places blizz stating they wouldnt make hybrids as good as something thats another class sole purpose, cant back this up with a link though since its a long time ago.
On a different note heigan is a boss where 1 chrushing blow can kill u if u got debuff so that one doesnt go :D
Also we are talking tanking here, so what I mean was when tanking the killer is still gonna be spike damage for the tank.
I dont really see warriors as a hybrid class and the fault with warriors for dps all comes down to aggro and the lack of abilitys to reduce it when dps'ing as a warrior. This is a problem in aggrointensive fights where a warrior cant really go full out.
Pyros:
COrrect me if I am wrong here pyros look at this.
Paladin block thing is 10% so once every 10 attacks and then works for next 5 attacks so 50% of the attacks.
Warriors get 2 blocks in with 5sec CD which makes it just a little worse if u spam it constantly.
Now the point I made remains still. When paladins shield aint up u could get 2x crushing in a row and u would have no way of stopping it, which makes your ability count more towards total damage metigation.
Warriors ability is capable of stopping that second crushing which makes it better.
Elog u fail to realise that hit list looks like this (numbers alter after gear ofc but u can get the general idea):
Roll: 0-50miss, 50-250dodge, 250-450parry, 450-1000block(with 55% block).`
Look @ this and tell me where u see space for a crushing blow? My point is that its alot less than 100% block u need in order to cancel out crushingblows here.
Anyways this is extremely hard for a warrior to get with the gear avalible to us atm, which is why SB owns so badly.
Jedic:
Whilst making a hybrid better than a 'sole purpose' class throughout would be a mistake, I dont see the harm in them being the best in certain situations. I realise that warriors aren't technically a hybrid class, and their dps is limited by aggro reduction, but still there are a number of fights where this isn't a concern and warriors will outdamage rogues (Loatheb as prime example, where fury warriors will out dps everyone besides ignite stealing mages). If warriors are allowed to be the best dps'ers situationally, why cant paladins be the best tanks situationally?
Crushing blow on heingan being a killer is debatable (can you react and press shield block after being debuffed quicker than a paladin/priest cleansing you?). I'd get your MT some more hp. But i'll give you that one. It's still 8 enounters in naxx where spike damage isn't the killer. And i realise that we are talking about tanking, and spike damage killing the tank, but still on Thaddius, Anub, Noth, Loatheb, Raz, Gothik, and 4HM, the reason for a tank dieing is unlikely to be a damage spike, but more down to healers dieing, locust swarm, stacks of sunder armour debuff on you etc.
Warriors are a hybrid class right now, whether they were intended to be or not. I would argue they are the strongest hybrid class in the game, since they are so strong in both their roles.
1) They are best tanking class
2) They can be a top DPS class, if geared/spec'd properly.
And lets not use the
warriors are allowed to be the best dps'ers situationally
as a reason to add more hybrd classes that can do everything well. Those of us with class with only one defined role start to feel a bit useless.
---------------------------------------------
There are 8 possible outcomes of a swing, and the probability of each is represented by a letter:
1) Miss (M)
1b) Parry (P)
1c) Dodge (D)
2a) Block (
2b) Glance (G)
3) Crush (U)
4) Crit (C)
5) Hit (H)
The order and numbering of the above list are important. Each swing is a pie that totals 100%, and the game fills it up in the order I specified. If the first 7 slices do not total 100%, the leftovers slice is called "Hit." If the total is greater than 100%, the things at the bottom get pushed off the list entirely.
Bellator:
U can get debuff + crushing blow in like the same second, meaning its not always possible to first realise "oh I got debuff" and then pressing SB in time before u die. Even with titans.
Avair:
Yes we might be but we lack the aggro reducing abilitys which would make our dps really shine in all encounters.
But I will give u that we can do damage. I mean I was for example fury for a week and I was second in dps on patchwerk just behind a rogue with 7 tier3. Let me just say my dps gear is rather poor and weapons are like 55dps each (spend 95% of my points on tanking items).
EDIT: Since blizzard is not gonna make a hybrid class as good a tank as a warrior its pretty safe to assume imo that druids and paladins will only be functioning as tank in situations where u might lack a warrior.
You do realize that Warriors are awesome tanking/DPS hybrids, right? This might change in the expansion if they nerf your Damage trees and push you to tanking, however at the moment this is still true.
Anyways, the real reason I am posting is Ardent Defender. This ability has so alot of potential depending on how Blizzard handles it. Let's say our theorycraft Paladin has 10 000 HP (makes it easier to do the math with :P).
Now imagine a boss like a (buffed?) Broodlord doing a 4000 Blastwave and 6000 MS combo. I'll leave out avoidance here, since on a long enough fight you will get a combo where you just don't parry or dodge or get missed.
Now if we assume a Warrior with 10 000 HP, he will die to that combo. But so would the Paladin since Ardent Defender does not kick in unless the Paladin is below 20% health when Blastwave and MS connect, right? But what if Blizzard makes the boss thresh (I am not sure if that is the right term; I mean that multiple hits connect at the same time, just like Sword Spec proc or Reckoning proc. Maexxna is supposed to do that on tanks :P).
So the detailed damage breakup would look like this:
Time into the fight - Damage taken
[00:07:01] - Boss' Blastwave hits you for 4000 Fire damage. - Paladin HP: 6000
[00:07:03] - Boss' Mortal Strike hits you for 2000 damage. - Paladin HP: 4000
[00:07:03] - Boss' Mortal Strike hits you for 2000 damage. - Paladin HP: 2000 <-- Ardent Defender kicking in*
[00:07:03] - Boss' Mortal Strike hits you for 1000 damage. - Paladin HP: 1000 <-- Paladin survives the burst due to AD.
Healers now have time to Heal the Paladin to full after the burst.
On a Warrior it would look like that:
[00:07:01] - Boss' Blastwave hits you for 4000 Fire damage. - Warrior HP: 6000
[00:07:03] - Boss' Mortal Strike hits you for 2000 damage. - Warrior HP: 4000
[00:07:03] - Boss' Mortal Strike hits you for 2000 damage. - Warrior HP: 2000
[00:07:03] - Boss' Mortal Strike hits you for 2000 damage. - Warrior HP: 0
[00:07:03] - You die.
I hope my example is not too farfetched, since the game already has bosses that thresh, and like I said, regardless of your avoidance, you will get a bad combo one time or another.
Also, while this is a fight that favors Paladins, it is in no way dictating your guild to use one because a Warrior or Druid might do well. The Warrior might survive the burst with good healing (being shielded after the Blastwave or healed to full for example) and lucky avoidance, and the Bear will just have higher HP and better mitigation. That is why I like this example; the choice is still there to choose any of the 3 tanking classes, however the Paladin has a slight edge.
Oh, and if I really wanted the boss to be "Paladin tank only" I'd just modify my boss so that it stuns then tank so cannot parry or dodge when stunned. :)
* Yes, I know that the Paladin is technical at 20% health and not below 20% so Ardent Defender does not really kick in. But if it bothers you so much, do the math with the Paladin having 10 001 HP instead of 10 000.
09/28/06, 12:59 AM
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