Not being a hunter ive allways thought tranqing was fairly simple. Mob goes frenzy, you push a button and the mob goes back to normal. But aparently its not that simple. We had some proplems on Huhuran back when we did AQ, but it wasnt a big issue. Now on Gluth it causes a bit more trouble.

While learning the fight slow tranqing caused maybe half our wipes, after we killed him the first time nearly all our wipes are because of slow tranqing. Am i right to abuse our hunters when it takes more then 5 seconds for tranq to land, or is it the healers that need to step it up? I was under the impression that you could cap yourself on +hit gear and never miss, but they still blame misses when things go wrong. In adition to misses tranq can aparently fail to dispell Frenzy, any tips on how to deal with that? Its a bit annoying to wipe on Gluth because the tank goes from full HP to dead in just a couple of seconds.

Tranq can sometimes fail. If your hunters don't have a tranq in the air within a second of a frenzy then they suck. But if it fails, sometimes it takes a couple of seconds to recognize that, another couple to communicate that fact to the next hunter in the rotation, and another to have him shoot. That's what healers are for.

Pretty much what Gurg said, but just like Chromaggus or Flamegor you've seen what happens when a tranq shot fails. You can expect some exceedingly heavy damage to be coming in very quickly, and it's imperative that your hunters be "with-it" enough to communicate via macro or via hunter channel, whatever they use, others need to know and adjust accordingly so another tranq is in the air as soon as possible. If it's taking upwards of 5 seconds, Gluth will be a bit of a hard fight.

I was under the impression a failed tranq didn't depress tranq shot? Or was that a bug?

Had a few failed tranqs on Chrom, (at which point it didn't matter since he'd been on farm) and I was able to cast tranq immediately after a fail.

As far as hit chance, at 10%, I've never missed a tranq, but I have at 9%. (And I've been gathering fight statistics for some time.)

We usually try to double up on hunters whenever possible, so it's two chances for tranq to be dispel'd (and if one hunter is slow it simply won't cast nowadays). Could be a point to try unless you are low on hunters.

I haven't fought Gluth yet but generally it doesn't take more than three seconds to dispell a frenzy effect if the first tranquilizing shot fails. Usually the frenzy should be dispelled after one second if the shot hits.

So I'd say your hunters have to react a whole lot faster.

You can't do pairs on Gluth unless you have 6 hunters. He frenzies too fast for that.

Also, while I have never played a hunter, I have never heard anything indicating that a tranq that "fails to dispel" Frenzy" does not put Tranq Shot into cooldown.

Tranquilzing Shot does definately go on cooldown even if it fails to dispel the frenzy. Another hunter has to pick up the slack on a failure or miss. And yes, Tranquilizing Shot does have an "air time," as the actual dispelling doesn't happen until the projectile collides with the boss's model--though 5 seconds is a bit of an exaggeration. Keep in mind that when a hunter knows its his turn to tranq, he can spam his tranq shot button and it will generate "Nothing to dispel" until the mob frenzies, when it will fire immediately. As others have said, 9% hit means you will never MISS a tranquilizing shot, but it can still be "resisted" and fail to dispel the frenzy, though it is rare and generates a clear combat message of "You fail to dispel XXX's Frenzy."

Edit: Nevermind, Steelfleece said it better

The chance that a tranq shot misses is roughly .1% (I'd say less). So if you have four hunters that shouldn't really be a problem since it's highly unprobable that the third hunter will miss his shot as well (I personally can't remember the last time when I missed a tranquilizing shot).

Then I'm assuming it was a bug, because there was a period a hunter could pick up their own slack, and immediately rectify the situation by casting tranq again.

Another good point, even with alot of hunters we sometimes will just do a few on rotation and then one floating, leaving the rest to dps. With our level of gear I don't think any of us have missed (notable exceptions Huhuran when we wear NR gear and our hit chance tanks) so generally I take responsibility for being the floater, or hand it off to a hunter who generally pays enough attention to pick up the slack without someone screaming.

Are you sure it wasn't just a case of attempting to fire too early and seeing the "Nothing to dispel" message? Because that will not put Tranq shot on cooldown, and I've never heard of anything like you describe having played a hunter since release.

Nope, I'm positive, because I thought the same thing (having played a hunter since release myself). I was vehement that the hunters in my guild were completely cracked when they said something, until the day I witnessed it myself. A very clear yellow message in combat log saying it had failed to dispel, no depressed hotkey, and two tranq shot messages in my combat log, not many seconds apart.

Edit: And no, the last time I noticed this happening was before they made it so tranq cannot be fired without a frenzy effect being present on the target. So it was most definitely a fail. Otherwise it would simply have depressed and stayed that way.

I've had tranqs miss but I've never seen one fail personally. There's mods which give very clear messages when a tranq misses. In my guild we all use simple tranq, the newest version even has cooldown timer bars for every hunter in the raid as well as a mob frenzy bar. So far it's been great with the exception of one oddity. There's a wierd bug I've experienced with Gluth (not sure if it's caused by the mod) where on occassion he'll become untranqable imidiatly after a decimate. You'll get the "Nothing to Dispel" message even though he's frenzied. Doesn't happen often though but when it does it's usually a wipe so it sucks.

Simple Tranq 2 is awesome. One stop shopping for any tranq fight, and automatically extends itself to new tranqable mobs.

5 seconds is an impressive job by your hunters fucking up. i would remind them that they are in a naxx raiding guild and shit like that doesnt happen in most PUB MCs.

Decimates removes any Frenzy effect that might be on Gluth and, as far as I can tell, resets the cooldown of it. This was changed because for a period of time after release, Gluth could use both virtually at the same time, making for instagibs on the tank.
Although, it's a bit annoying to tranq and get the message, and not see the hunter in the rotation fire :P

Uh... no. Tranq doesn't show up in the combat log until the projectile connects with the boss unless the shot misses. Hits and fails are delayed. Before STranq, I used to use that fact to increase the efficiency of my own tranqing, since I knew that if I fired and didn't immediately see a miss message there was a 99% chance that it was a hit (fail rate seems to be a flat 1% in my experience).

Even if you spam the button so that you fire tranq the exact millisecond the "mob is frenzied" packet is processed by your computer, there's still going to be a half second or more delay before the shot is fired on anyone else's screen and a second or two of flight time and packet lag to everyone else's computer.

I've been playing a hunter since day one, and I've never actually had a tranq shot fail, but I've had a couple misses in my day.

Gluth has a 10 second frenzy timer so it isn't really practical to use 2 groups of tranqing hunters (as mentioned previously). So as the fight progresses (assuming you have humanly reaction times) Gluth will be frenzied longer and longer since cooldowns are going to get offset from his frenzy. Another important thing to note about this encounter is that Gluth frenzies every 10 seconds independently of when he actually gets tranqed. If you tranq him after he's been frenzied for 6 seconds, it's going to be 4 seconds until you see frenzy again.

For Gluth I suggest using three hunters with either +8 or +9 hit and then a backup hunter. Even with +9 it's possible to miss, but it is very rare. I'd suggest that you have your hunters turn on simple tranq which will let you know via a sound cue that a hunter has either missed or failed, and the beta version lets you see cooldown bars for your hunters' tranqs. SimpleTranq suffers from the same problems the old school damage meter did though; if you aren't in general proximity to the other hunters, you won't see their combat data. Also, have your hunters stand just out of fear range to minimize the travel time of tranq shot because Gluth really owns if he isn't tranqed.

Hope this helps!

Does anyone else remember back in the days of BWL; there was a patch they introduced the 'nothing to dispel message'. Before that you could have a timer going and tranq one second before it went off and it would instantly be removed. But after that patch tranq shot did funny things. I had never had a failure until that patch and one flamegore the hunter before me failed and yelled for me to fire.

Nothing to dispel I was told, as he aoe'd the raid to death with frenzy on.

I havn't seen a failure since; but I'm wondering does it still bug the mob and result in it being untranqable for that duration of frenzy?



As for gluth frenzies even 2 seconds can destroy a tank with bad crits of crushings, tranq needs to happen asap and if your hunters are waiting to see the message to fire they're bad. They should be spamming it non stop during their turn.

I'm also another person who has never seen a Tranq Shot fail. I have, however, seen many Hunters who for some reason actually DPS Gluth from max range. lol@that

Standing just outside fear range gives saves you half a second or more of air time on your tranq shot, just to expand upon what KraJee said earlier. There really is no reason to actually stand at 41 yards for a lot of boss fights in Naxx. :|

gluth cannot be tranq'd by 2 hunters. the fight essentially requires 3.

as others have said, there is a difference between tranq shot missing and tranq shot failing, as well as tranq shot failing to dispel and failing to cast. if the mob is not frenzied, you cannot cast tranq shot - you will get the error message "nothing to dispel" and it won't use your cooldown. if the mob is frenzied and you fire, you can A) miss and B) hit and fail to dispel. the frequency of A is impacted as per your normal shots by +hit gear, while B is a baseline resist/fail rate that is very low.

as to the person saying "hunters are just slow and make excuses" - give me a break. this isn't the wow forums. don't treat is as such.

;)

Anyway, what would you prefer as a hunter-specific mechanic? It's hard to see what else they could add, beyond a kiting scenario where a Hunter is clearly optimal. Even then, that's not quite the same as the hard requirement of tranq shot.