Tranq shot - Page 2

Zurai · 09/28/06, 3:23 PM

Simple Tranq 2 is awesome. One stop shopping for any tranq fight, and automatically extends itself to new tranqable mobs.

DeeNogger · 09/28/06, 3:41 PM

5 seconds is an impressive job by your hunters fucking up. i would remind them that they are in a naxx raiding guild and shit like that doesnt happen in most PUB MCs.

Lactose · 09/28/06, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by Fenrus

So far it's been great with the exception of one oddity. There's a wierd bug I've experienced with Gluth (not sure if it's caused by the mod) where on occassion he'll become untranqable imidiatly after a decimate. You'll get the "Nothing to Dispel" message even though he's frenzied. Doesn't happen often though but when it does it's usually a wipe so it sucks.

Decimates removes any Frenzy effect that might be on Gluth and, as far as I can tell, resets the cooldown of it. This was changed because for a period of time after release, Gluth could use both virtually at the same time, making for instagibs on the tank.
Although, it's a bit annoying to tranq and get the message, and not see the hunter in the rotation fire :P

Pyros · 09/28/06, 3:44 PM

Hunters are generally slow to dispel, at least in most guilds I've played with. They blame it on misses and resists, but they're just slow most of the time(it helps having a combat log to show them they actually shot 4secs late so even if they missed, they fucked up to begin with). You can miss, but it doesn't happen too often. It can be resisted, but that doesn't happen too often. However we've had at least one tranq fuck up every single week, and sometimes more than one on the same boss. I've played a hunter, and back then you could shoot too early(which would happen when you'd try to anticipate too much). Now that you can't shoot early anymore and just spam the key until it shoots when it's your turn, I have trouble understanding why hunters can't do it.

It's actually quite surprising to see how many BAD hunters you find in high end raid gaming. Hunters who actually take aggro, can't pull correctly, can't tranq with AT LEAST a 80% efficiency on shooting in the second after the mob frenzies, equip themselves like idiots and can't dps. Probably just my own experience tho, I hope ^^

Zurai · 09/28/06, 3:49 PM

Originally Posted by Pyros

Hunters are generally slow to dispel, at least in most guilds I've played with. They blame it on misses and resists, but they're just slow most of the time(it helps having a combat log to show them they actually shot 4secs late so even if they missed, they fucked up to begin with).

Uh... no. Tranq doesn't show up in the combat log until the projectile connects with the boss unless the shot misses. Hits and fails are delayed. Before STranq, I used to use that fact to increase the efficiency of my own tranqing, since I knew that if I fired and didn't immediately see a miss message there was a 99% chance that it was a hit (fail rate seems to be a flat 1% in my experience).

Even if you spam the button so that you fire tranq the exact millisecond the "mob is frenzied" packet is processed by your computer, there's still going to be a half second or more delay before the shot is fired on anyone else's screen and a second or two of flight time and packet lag to everyone else's computer.

KraJee · 09/28/06, 4:32 PM

I've been playing a hunter since day one, and I've never actually had a tranq shot fail, but I've had a couple misses in my day.

Gluth has a 10 second frenzy timer so it isn't really practical to use 2 groups of tranqing hunters (as mentioned previously). So as the fight progresses (assuming you have humanly reaction times) Gluth will be frenzied longer and longer since cooldowns are going to get offset from his frenzy. Another important thing to note about this encounter is that Gluth frenzies every 10 seconds independently of when he actually gets tranqed. If you tranq him after he's been frenzied for 6 seconds, it's going to be 4 seconds until you see frenzy again.

For Gluth I suggest using three hunters with either +8 or +9 hit and then a backup hunter. Even with +9 it's possible to miss, but it is very rare. I'd suggest that you have your hunters turn on simple tranq which will let you know via a sound cue that a hunter has either missed or failed, and the beta version lets you see cooldown bars for your hunters' tranqs. SimpleTranq suffers from the same problems the old school damage meter did though; if you aren't in general proximity to the other hunters, you won't see their combat data. Also, have your hunters stand just out of fear range to minimize the travel time of tranq shot because Gluth really owns if he isn't tranqed.

Hope this helps!

McInaction · 09/28/06, 4:41 PM

Does anyone else remember back in the days of BWL; there was a patch they introduced the 'nothing to dispel message'. Before that you could have a timer going and tranq one second before it went off and it would instantly be removed. But after that patch tranq shot did funny things. I had never had a failure until that patch and one flamegore the hunter before me failed and yelled for me to fire.

Nothing to dispel I was told, as he aoe'd the raid to death with frenzy on.

I havn't seen a failure since; but I'm wondering does it still bug the mob and result in it being untranqable for that duration of frenzy?

As for gluth frenzies even 2 seconds can destroy a tank with bad crits of crushings, tranq needs to happen asap and if your hunters are waiting to see the message to fire they're bad. They should be spamming it non stop during their turn.

Eej · 09/28/06, 5:07 PM

I'm also another person who has never seen a Tranq Shot fail. I have, however, seen many Hunters who for some reason actually DPS Gluth from max range. lol@that

Standing just outside fear range gives saves you half a second or more of air time on your tranq shot, just to expand upon what KraJee said earlier. There really is no reason to actually stand at 41 yards for a lot of boss fights in Naxx. :|

Elendril · 09/28/06, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Rabid Rob

most mobs can be tranqed by two hunters, so it's not that hard to have 2 groups of 2. Basically, the 2 hunters that should be tranqing just need to spam click the Tranq button till it fires.

The only failure message I've seen in ages is when it misses, and most hunters should be close enough to our tohit cap so that is quite rare.

Hopefully in tBC, the tranq-gimmick will be done away with, it just doesn't feel natural at all compared to mages/warlocks AOE gimmick.

gluth cannot be tranq'd by 2 hunters. the fight essentially requires 3.

as others have said, there is a difference between tranq shot missing and tranq shot failing, as well as tranq shot failing to dispel and failing to cast. if the mob is not frenzied, you cannot cast tranq shot - you will get the error message "nothing to dispel" and it won't use your cooldown. if the mob is frenzied and you fire, you can A) miss and B) hit and fail to dispel. the frequency of A is impacted as per your normal shots by +hit gear, while B is a baseline resist/fail rate that is very low.

as to the person saying "hunters are just slow and make excuses" - give me a break. this isn't the wow forums. don't treat is as such.

• malthrin · 09/28/06, 6:03 PM

Originally Posted by Elendril

excuses

;)

Anyway, what would you prefer as a hunter-specific mechanic? It's hard to see what else they could add, beyond a kiting scenario where a Hunter is clearly optimal. Even then, that's not quite the same as the hard requirement of tranq shot.

Zurai · 09/28/06, 6:12 PM

Originally Posted by malthrin

Originally Posted by Elendril

excuses

;)

Anyway, what would you prefer as a hunter-specific mechanic? It's hard to see what else they could add, beyond a kiting scenario where a Hunter is clearly optimal. Even then, that's not quite the same as the hard requirement of tranq shot.

Make use of our pets. For example: adds that don't pulverize people, but have a spammable knockback that clears aggro. Pets are immune to knockback, so they could tank the adds as long as they got heals, whereas if they're let loose on the raid no one's going to get anything done because everyone's going to be flying all over the room.

Pontiac · 09/28/06, 6:15 PM

Wow, and here's me thinking I'm the ONLY raiding hunter in the world who wants blizzard to give us more use for our pets. Reading forums sort of creates the impression that we'd all trade our pets out for some extra RAP in a heartbeat.

But yes, I agree with this completely. Any hunter-specific roles that blizzard wants to put in new encounters should ideally revolve around the pet, since that's really the class feature that distinguishes hunters the most in my opinion.

Lumi · 09/28/06, 6:53 PM

Ouro highlighted the strengths of hunters all in one boss. A highly mobile, low aggro, long range, moderate dps class that has a high survivability (hp/armor/access to resists). Unfortuantely that niche is so narrow that you'd need to almost design the boss fight around it.

Another fight that was pro-hunter (on our first kill anyway) was Twin Emperors. They could essentially move very little and still dps consistantly on the Twin Emps.

Unfortunately as our strats/execution got more refined and our rogues got much better gear, hunters lost whatever glory they had on those fights.

Qrt · 09/28/06, 7:03 PM

As we have yet to reach Gluth with my guild I only have experiences from BWL/AQ40. We generally see most misses on Huhuran (probably because of the general gimping of +hit due to NR gear) and Chromaggus (don't really know why - he's a lvl 63 just like the others).

But on the Flamegor encounter it is very noticable how far away the hunters stand from the drake. As a consequence we move all our hunters in to stand on the edge of the dead zone to minimise 'air time' of the tranq shot. And so we almost never get a tick of the fire AoE.

Branar · 09/28/06, 7:06 PM

Broodlord was another kill that, when it was introduced, was very hunter friendly without being gimmicky, kite-oriented, or even pet-oriented. Feign Death and agro reduction were king. Of course, raiding agro has changed a lot since then with shield slam being improved and gear changing, so now it's probably not something you can consider a "hunter" fight anymore.

Really though, I think hunters will just have to wait and see what's in store for them in terms of talents and skills in the expansion. It's obvious the developers are seriously rethinking some aspects (no pun intended LOL omg) of the class, and hopefully changes will give hunters a more clearly defined niche.