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Old 09/28/06, 4:01 PM   #1
Flubber
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Hi everyone,
Nothing gamebreaking here so feel free to move along if this isnt your cup o' tea.

In the spirit of our classic EF>all rants, I've been taking a look at healer neckpieces that are available to me and trying pin down a min-max best item. (difficult to do as a healer, I know). Before I get to the meat of the question, allow me to outline my gear and role:

I am a proponent of HW and Chain Heal. I rarely use LHW. I usually use Rank1, 5 and 10 of HW and Rank 1 of Chain Heal. I am generally on a single target (think Vek'nilash), rather than spot healing. I am 38 resto skipping -5% mana cost for Imp. Reinc and Ancestral Fort. I have full Earthfury, full Ten Storms and Augur staff, as well as a set of misc. items. Depending on my set, I go from 66mp5 +491 healing to 110mp5 +526 healing to 75mp5 +575 healing.

I pose this question as I am currently in a position to look for upgrades to my neck slot and I'm trying to decide whether I am just beating a dead horse. I currently use Pendant of the Fallen Dragon http://www.thottbot.com/?i=40742 , is there a point to upgrade into any of the following necks?:

Forgotten Names http://www.thottbot.com/?i=53885 (+6 int,+18 spirit, -2 mp5, -9 stamina, )
Wavefront http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52236 (-6 int, , -1 mp5, -4 stamina, +24 healing)
Angelista's http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52757 (+2 int, , -3 mp5, +3 stamina, +31 healing)
Shifting Sands http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52741 (-12int, , -3 mp5, -9 stamina, +46 healing)
Necropsy http://www.thottbot.com/?i=53914 (-1 int,+10 spriit, -9 mp5, +1 stamina, +51 Healing)
Fallen God http://www.thottbot.com/?i=53394 (-12int, , -3 mp5, +2 stamina, +57 Healing)

I notice there is a large ~10% improvement I can make in +healing moving into something like Fallen God. +18 spirit improvement on Forgotten Names. Or I can normalize with Necropsy or Angelista's. I just wonder if there is any tangible improvement to be had for someone in my roll (derank floor, single target, no HoT) or would the DKP be better served in other places. I really feel like its a ~1-2% wash on all but Fallen God, and (without hands-on on Patchwerk) whether more +healing is really necessary. Open my eyes.

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Old 09/28/06, 4:04 PM   #2
Zwink
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Mage
 
Mannoroth
No question about it, Angelista's or the C'thun neck for a shaman. Currently I use Pendant of Forgotten names as a priest, but that's only because of 3 trans and Meditation. You can never get too much plus healing. Your down ranks just become that much better as your plus healing improves.


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Old 09/28/06, 4:09 PM   #3
berg
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Rogue
 
Tichondrius
Angelistas, in my opinion, is the best neck piece for a Shaman. It is well rounded and does not lend itself to any one particular style of healing.

Many of the other choices are either too focused (Vael Neck or Ossirian head neck) and lend themselves too much to either burst or steady healing. Also the necks that spend a lot of budget on spirit are a poor fit for a shaman.

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Old 09/28/06, 4:09 PM   #4
Nite_Moogle
I prefer the term treasure hunting
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Healing Way really scales your +healing exceptionally well, and if you are using HW5 a whole lot I'd probably lean towards picking up more +healing at the expense of a few MP/5. If you use a lot more Chain Heal then MP/5 becomes more important. There's no reason you can't get something like Necropsy and bag it out for the PotFD in situations where you'll be using Chain Heal more.

Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.

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Old 09/28/06, 4:11 PM   #5
Erongg
Great Tiger
 
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Lorentz
Troll Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Could someone with good knowledge of the mechanics of Chain Heal please post how it's affected by +heal, with and without 3-piece TS? I remember reading a post that said CH used +heal with 141% efficiency, and I'd like to see how that number is calculated, if true. It makes +heal really great for Chain Heal spam situations.


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Old 09/28/06, 4:12 PM   #6
Teejmanglot
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
As far as I know its a 71% from +healing on the first heal.

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Old 09/28/06, 4:17 PM   #7
 Oggie
Disharmonious
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Lightbringer
Hurts my brain that you skipped AH....

Anyway, since you -have- a high mana high sustain neckpiece, I'd go in completely the other direction and stack on +healing. Keeping both pieces as swap is going to serve you a lot better (imo) than one or the other exclusively. Certain fights promote downranking, others promote spamming/decursing, and swapping a few pieces (which it sounds like you're already a big fan of) is very helpful to that end.

Personally, I'd go for Shifting Sands (depending upon your guild's dkp system, that this might be 'free') or C'thun's neck. Angelista's is very nice, but being you already have a very good neck you'll be swapping in/out I'd value either of those a hair higher.

Just my opinion though, sounds like you're significantly ahead of me progress-wise so take it with a grain of salt.

Edit:
Chain heal gets 71% from the first jump, 35.5% on the 2nd, and 17.75% on jump #3. That totals up to 124.25%, but if you wear 3 piece TS it goes down by 37.5% instead of 50% per jump, leading to a total of 143.1%.

If you were curious how that math came about.

Originally Posted by bartolimu View Post
It makes me want to hit Marge Thatcher on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

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Old 09/28/06, 4:20 PM   #8
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Oggie
Hurts my brain that you skipped AH....
Flubber said
I am 38 resto skipping -5% mana cost for Imp. Reinc and Ancestral Fort.
He didn't skip the armor bonus ;).


Yes, a strong +healing neck is the way to go.

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Old 09/28/06, 4:20 PM   #9
Nite_Moogle
I prefer the term treasure hunting
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
I believe the initial hit has a slightly lower coefficient for calculating +heal than a normal 2.5 second heal, but if it doesn't, you recieve 71.4% + 35.7% + 17.8% = ~ 125% of your +healing over the whole spell. Having the 3 piece Ten Storms bonus moves it to 71% + 46% + 30% (2nd and 3rd jumps improve to 65% of the previous hit instead of 50%), which is about 145% of your total +healing bonus. Of course the trick is that you have to have 3 targets who need healing for it to be that awesome...

Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.

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Old 09/28/06, 4:21 PM   #10
 Oggie
Disharmonious
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by frmorrison
Originally Posted by Oggie
Hurts my brain that you skipped AH....
Flubber said
I am 38 resto skipping -5% mana cost for Imp. Reinc and Ancestral Fort.
He didn't skip the armor bonus ;).
Thank jebus I'm blind.

I was a little worried there.

Originally Posted by bartolimu View Post
It makes me want to hit Marge Thatcher on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

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Old 09/28/06, 4:43 PM   #11
Erongg
Great Tiger
 
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Lorentz
Troll Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Of course the trick is that you have to have 3 targets who need healing for it to be that awesome...
Well if you didn't, you wouldn't be using Chain Heal.

I think Angelista's is the best all around neck for general use. Even point allocation among four different useful stats makes for a really good necklace.


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Old 09/28/06, 6:07 PM   #12
ayb
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
I use angelista's, upgrading from jin'do's eye. I'll gladly sacrifice 12 healing for some more mana and more int/stam

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Old 09/28/06, 6:19 PM   #13
R4zza
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Khadgar (EU)
Originally Posted by Teejmanglot
As far as I know its a 71% from +healing on the first heal.
And as far as I know, it gets 125% bonus from +heal, but its easy to test so....

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Old 09/28/06, 7:23 PM   #14
Humbaba
Mr. Sandman
 
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Humbalo
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
And I was hoping you were going to discuss taking Barbed Choker from warriors and rogues. Dual wield is nigh!

Here's the math that was posted a while back on comparing +healing and regen (I'm copying and pasting from a post on my guild forums, but you can search it out if you want).

"No stop casting": I suppose we cast LHW(6) ( 361 mana cost).

If a shaman has X mana/5 sec then he needs 361*5/X = 1805/X seconds to gain
another 361 mana to cast another LHW(6). After 1805/X sec the target then gain
~ +1000 healing ( the "free" cast ).
In that time a shaman casts: 1805/X/1.5 LHW(6) = 1203/X LHW(6).
Then to gain +1000 healing on 1203/X LHW(6) casted the +healing effective for
each cast should be: 1000/(1203/X) = (1000/1203)*X. Due the time normalization
the +healing has to be: (1000/1203)*X*3.5/1.5 ~= 2*X
This means the caster without Xmana/5sec has to have +2X Healing to have the
same healing in output.

So in case of non stop casting +2H = 1 mana/5sec

So if you have +70 mana/5sec = +140 healing.
This in case of no stop casting => after 25 secs he is OOM.

If you do a pause of 1.5 sec beetween each cast then +4H = 1 mana/5 sec
with a pause of 3 sec beetween each cast then +6H = 1 mana/5 sec.

Some time during a fight you need to rest more than 5 Secs to have the
regeneration due to your spirit, in that case with 6 sec of rest in that case:
+10 H = 1mana/5 sec.

So during the trash clean better have +Healing gear and for long fights
better mana/5 sec, and that are the numbers I have to say also that
if you do not cast always LHW(6) as we do not normally then the apport
of +healing is better.
For me it works out to about 6 healing = 1 mp5. I have the Pendant and don't plan to replace it soon. We're on Twin Emps so the closest upgrade is Angelista's, but I won't bother upgrading until C'Thun since we have other healers that could use Angelista's more. It's an upgrade and most people should take it, but I'll let it go since it'll help the raid more overall for others to take it.

Like I said, dual wield is nigh! (And so is level 70 with better blues, most likely.)

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Old 09/29/06, 1:27 AM   #15
mnemus
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Shaman
 
Smolderthorn
In TBC something like Angelista's would be the more logical choice. For right now, Fallen God has everything you want, nothing you don't.

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