hunter ring selection - Page 3

Zurai · 10/02/06, 7:49 AM

Originally Posted by koolkal

If you read the OP, it says nothing about rings in the expansion, he was talking about current items, as was I. Also, if you run the math on a 20% haste in a rotation with a 3.4 weapon, you'll find it's NOT worth letting an extra auto shot go off. Run it again with 30% or 40%, you'll find you benefit by allowing that extra shot off. That's why it's not good.

Timetable for standard 3.4:

00.00: Autoshot fires
03.00: Aimed Shot fires
03.50: Autoshot fires
03.50: Multishot fires
06.46: Autoshot fires
09.00: Aimed Shot cools down
09.42: Autoshot fires
12.42: Aimed Shot fires
12.92: Autoshot fires
13.50: Multishot cools down & fires
15.88: Autoshot fires
18.42: Aimed Shot cools down
18.84: Autoshot fires
21.84: Aimed Shot fires
22.34: Auto Shot fires
23.84: Multishot cools down & fires
25.30: Auto Shot fires

Total = 9 auto shots, 3 aimed shots, 3 aimed shots over 25.30 seconds; Aimed Shot has 2.54 seconds to cool down; Multishot has 8.54 seconds to cool down; Auto Shot has 2.96 seconds to cool down.

Timetable for 3.4 with KotS:

00.00: Kiss triggered
00.00: Auto Shot fires
02.30: Aimed Shot fires
02.80: Auto Shot fires
02.80: Multishot fires
04.76: Auto Shot fires
07.23: Auto Shot fires
08.30: Aimed Shot cools down
09.70: Auto Shot fires
12.00: Aimed Shot fires
12.50: Auto Shot fires
12.80: Multishot cools down & fires
14.96: Auto Shot fires
15.00: Kiss fades - shot in progress is still hasted
17.43: Auto Shot fires
18.00: Aimed Shot cools down
21.00: Aimed Shot fires
21.50: Auto Shot fires
22.80: Multishot cools down & fires
24.46: Auto Shot fires

Total = 10 Auto Shots, 3 Aimed Shots, 3 Multishots over 25.30 seconds; Aimed Shot has 1.7 seconds to cool down; Multishot has 7.5 seconds to cool down; Auto Shot has 2.12 seconds to cool down.

Conclusion: By using Kiss of the Spider, you have gained 1 Auto Shot as well as 0.84 seconds of Aimed Shot cooldown, 1.04 seconds of Multishot cooldown, and 0.84 seconds of Auto Shot cooldown.

LadyVex · 10/02/06, 9:19 AM

Originally Posted by koolkal

If you read the OP, it says nothing about rings in the expansion, he was talking about current items, as was I. Also, if you run the math on a 20% haste in a rotation with a 3.4 weapon, you'll find it's NOT worth letting an extra auto shot go off. Run it again with 30% or 40%, you'll find you benefit by allowing that extra shot off. That's why it's not good.

I do stand corrected; after responding to the various postings I had thought the original topic was rings now and in the future. With that said, I'm still of the mind that finding good rings now is easy peasy, but will not be so after the expansion where our ideals are changing.

As far as the KOTS, seems Zurai ran the numbers.

koolkal · 10/03/06, 1:21 AM

3.00/1.20 = 2.5

Also auto shot should be synced with Aimed shot for the same reason. 3s cast/1.2 = 2.5s cast
3.4 sec cooldown/(1.15x1.2) = 2.46. Your math is off.

It actually goes:

0:00 Auto
2:50 Aimed
3:00 auto
5:46 auto
7:92 auto
10:38 or 9s (this is where the main point of contention is)
Is 1.38 sec loss on aimed shot/auto series worth the extra auto?

Think of it this way, if your auto shot hits for 500, then you would need a dps of 500/1.38 or 362 with your rotation sans Multi. So basically, average auto shot/(rotation damage - multishot dps contribution). If you run the numbers on high level gear, it doesn't add up to wanting that shot.

Zurai · 10/03/06, 2:39 AM

Originally Posted by koolkal

3.00/1.20 = 2.5

Also auto shot should be synced with Aimed shot for the same reason. 3s cast/1.2 = 2.5s cast
3.4 sec cooldown/(1.15x1.2) = 2.46. Your math is off.

The auto shot is correct in my math, but I'm not sure how I screwed up on aimed shot. My bad there.

EDIT: 362 DPS without multi is far from unreachable, though. 500 average autoshot damage, 1000 average aimed shot damage, 25% crit rate = 3 autoshots and 1 aimed shot over 9 seconds = ((787.5*3) + (1575))/9 = 437.5. I reach those numbers on a fully sundered target with just BWL/AQ40 gear (except the crit rate, but that's not too far off what I have with raid buffs)

koolkal · 10/03/06, 5:43 PM

If that DPS is easily reachable, it simply means you don't want to delay your Aimed Shot. You would want to use the extra Auto only if the DPS was below that value. Hence, using my example, if your DPS with auto/aimed was below 362, then it's better to use the extra auto shot. As you've stated, the DPS isn't that hard to attain, though the crit rate would affect both the auto and the cycle, so take out the 25% crit. Regardless of which way the numbers fall, I still can't see how it's as huge an upgrade as people in this thread have stated.

LadyVex · 10/03/06, 7:31 PM

Originally Posted by koolkal

If that DPS is easily reachable, it simply means you don't want to delay your Aimed Shot. You would want to use the extra Auto only if the DPS was below that value. Hence, using my example, if your DPS with auto/aimed was below 362, then it's better to use the extra auto shot. As you've stated, the DPS isn't that hard to attain, though the crit rate would affect both the auto and the cycle, so take out the 25% crit. Regardless of which way the numbers fall, I still can't see how it's as huge an upgrade as people in this thread have stated.

Because you're looking at the item singularly.

HIt chance items in trinket slots are always far ahead of the curve because they free up other slots. Couple this with the fact that it can speed up aimed shot when and IF you need it, and bingo, you have a really awesome hunter trinket.

With level 70 quickly approaching KOTS will be worth more than BHB. While its easy to garner 9% hit chance, I don't believe it is possible without at least some ring/neck/weapon slots dedicated to the stat. (6% from CS + ZG enchants, leaving 3% more from other slots.)

Since a 3% to hit scope is something I'd like to avoid (prefering to leave my ranged slot completely dedicated to + dmg modifiers) using a drake fang and KOTS would easily make up that last 3%, leaving me with all other slots for the truly best in dps items. (Although band of unnatural forces is great and still houses hit chance.)

For true min/maxing I still believe KOTS plays a role.

koolkal · 10/03/06, 11:29 PM

For min/maxing: Kingsfall and DFT. There's your other three, and Kingsfall is the best 1h for Hunters in the game.

Would you rather have 1 extra crit from BHB and have 1 crit 52 ap ring, or have the haste effect and either 60 ap .6 crit 6mp5 or 68 ap .64 crit, roughly. 1.4 crit approximately vs. 8 ap 6mp5 and a haste effect or 16 ap and a haste effect.

Also, Prestor's hold's very well against Talisman of Seething, roughly 60 ap .6 crit 1 hit vs 2 crit 26 ap. Or basically 34 ap 1 hit vs 1.4 crit.

LadyVex · 10/04/06, 9:21 AM

Originally Posted by koolkal

For min/maxing: Kingsfall and DFT. There's your other three, and Kingsfall is the best 1h for Hunters in the game.

Would you rather have 1 extra crit from BHB and have 1 crit 52 ap ring, or have the haste effect and either 60 ap .6 crit 6mp5 or 68 ap .64 crit, roughly. 1.4 crit approximately vs. 8 ap 6mp5 and a haste effect or 16 ap and a haste effect.

Also, Prestor's hold's very well against Talisman of Seething, roughly 60 ap .6 crit 1 hit vs 2 crit 26 ap. Or basically 34 ap 1 hit vs 1.4 crit.

You're looking at things as they stand now, I am not.

BHB will lose it's crit rating as we make our way to 70, becoming less valuable. Prestor's will only be a little under 1% crit and 30 AP, compared to Seething which is 26? AP and 2% crit; they are HARDLY worth comparing since Seething also incorporates stamina.

And a drop from Maexxna is way easier to get than a drop from KT, and if Kingsfall has a drop rate like Death's Sting, not even all the dagger rogues will get them in just *one* guild before they abandon Naxx. (I think the two servers I frequent have something like 2-3 Death's Sting COMBINED.)]

Edit: Of course this discussion is somewhat moot, band of unnatural forces is an outstanding ring and incorporates that last little bit of hit chance, but I'd still use my KOTS.