Hello folks, firstly go easy on me if there is a thread/post within the vaults of this forum that already goes into detail the understanding of Hand of Justice trinket i'm sorry i missed it. I have had a look through the majority of them after using search facility, but couldn't find the information i seeked. I'm pretty new to ElitestJerks, but i do understand that yous generally like things done prim and proper so hopefully this thread is not to your disliking.
My main search is whethere or not HoJ is really as good as it seems. From trolling through the vast threads about rogue trinkets and which are best, i seen HoJ mentioned numerous times. What i would like to know is whethere i should replace my Royal Seal of Eldre'Thalas for HoJ.
I believe the Royal Seal benefits me quite alot as i have a mediocore kit as can be viewed here:
From what i've read +hit is quite a major stat for duel wielding rogues up until about +14-16% then it starts to loose it's usefullness. It is on this basis that i make my judgment to stick with the Royal Seal due to me equipment not quite making up the +to hit deficit.
So, would HoJ be beneficial for me at this stage? Or at a later stage once i have reached the +to hit cap through other means? Or, and this is another one of my understandings, is HoJ more so benificial for sword rogues with sword specialisation? It would be pretty mean, in my opinion, to have HoJ on a sword rogue combined with the likes of blade flurry and SnD giving a 7% chance on each hit for an extra swing. So would i get as much of an advantage from HoJ being dagger rogue?
I never thought of the 2% extra attack simply being a +2% to hit.
As for getting it, acht i'm quite the farmer at heart so i'll enjoy the challenge of doing brd again and again and again @_@
that's only true for your white hits, and even then it's not really true
with HOJ:
white hits:
+2% and 20ap
yellow hits:
+0-2% and 20ap
with 2% hit:
white hits:
100 / (current missrate) * MIN[(100-current missrate+2);100]
so say you got 85% hit atm 2% hit will give you a 100/85*87= 102.35, or a 2.35% increase (to white dps)
yellow hits:
100 / (current missrate) * MIN[(100-current missrate+2);100]
keep in mind missrate of yellows is 5% so once you have more than 5% hit, specials don't recieve anny bonus from more +hit annymore.
so it depends on:
- your current dps
- your +hit
- the % of your damage that commes from white hits
I never thought of the 2% extra attack simply being a +2% to hit.
As for getting it, acht i'm quite the farmer at heart so i'll enjoy the challenge of doing brd again and again and again @_@
that's only true for your white hits, and even then it's not really true
with HOJ:
white hits:
+2% and 20ap
yellow hits:
+0-2% and 20ap
with 2% hit:
white hits:
100 / (current missrate) * MIN[(100-current missrate+2);100]
so say you got 85% hit atm 2% hit will give you a 100/85*87= 102.35, or a 2.35% increase (to white dps)
yellow hits:
100 / (current missrate) * MIN[(100-current missrate+2);100]
keep in mind missrate of yellows is 5% so once you have more than 5% hit, specials don't recieve anny bonus from more +hit annymore.
so it depends on:
- your current dps
- your +hit
- the % of your damage that commes from white hits
My current dps is approximately around 400, +12% to hit (Based on my CTProfile data) and about 56% of my dmg comes from white hits.
I'm looking for a guide to farm this Trinket. Can someone share his experiences or thoughts about 'teh grind trough brd'?
regrads =)
It is quite possible to do 20 minute Emperor runs with 3 or 4 poeple - depending on gear. I did this on my Shaman with a Holy priest and a Fury Warrior, me wanting the shock totem, the warrior wanting HOJ and the priest... was just a nice bloke I think.
Enter BRD
turn left, open gate (needs lockpicking 280 or the Shadowforge key)
take the next turn right behind the other gate
open first door left and enter the Shadowforge Lock room (don't open it)
let the elemental pass, run up the stairs
take the left hallway (not up to the arena)
run through, ignore dwarfs
jump through the first window on the right
jump down the ledge minding dwarves
go through the big door
ignore more fire elementals and run to Incendius, ignore him
jump down from the left side of his platform
bunny hop through the lava to the ledge at the wall
rest up
wallwalk until you see the small isle in the lava
bunny hop towards the isle, take care not to aggro elementals
rest up, take down elementals
swim from isle towards the bridge where you can leave the lava
enter the Lyceum, find torches blabla
exit Lyceum, kill the giant
clear the throne room
kill the emperor
Can take down the number to 2, the lyceum can be done 2ways, either AEing(you probably want a priest for holy nova, mages will die) or rogue doing the whole thing solo; find a little guy, ambush/kill him, loot, vanish if you aggroed, go to fire elem, kill him while staying in the middle, light up, stealth, go find 2nd one etc. After both torches are lit up, mobs don't respawn so just take it slowly. After that it's just a matter of having decent enough gear and being cautious with pulls. The boss itself is somewhat hard if you don't have a healer tho, he packs quite a punch and you have to drop the add first. You can somewhat kite them around tho, using the stairs and stuff.
So any healer with a rogue would be enough to do it, if using a warrior, I'd say you'd need a priest for lyceum, whrilwinding is too slow to kill those spawns.
Hmm, royal seal, blackhand's breath, and HoJ are all very close in performance. Depending on a rogues total +hit, crit, build, and weapons, the value of each alters. BB turns hits into crits - which is great for specials. Seal turns misses into hits (only for white damage once you're over 5.6 to hit). HoJ procs more attacks. If your gear was good enough to crit cap you, specifically when fully raid buffed, then the +hit would be better than plus crit. I don't think that's the case here.
Can take down the number to 2, the lyceum can be done 2ways, either AEing(you probably want a priest for holy nova, mages will die) or rogue doing the whole thing solo; find a little guy, ambush/kill him, loot, vanish if you aggroed, go to fire elem, kill him while staying in the middle, light up, stealth, go find 2nd one etc. After both torches are lit up, mobs don't respawn so just take it slowly. After that it's just a matter of having decent enough gear and being cautious with pulls. The boss itself is somewhat hard if you don't have a healer tho, he packs quite a punch and you have to drop the add first. You can somewhat kite them around tho, using the stairs and stuff.
So any healer with a rogue would be enough to do it, if using a warrior, I'd say you'd need a priest for lyceum, whrilwinding is too slow to kill those spawns.
Or invest in a force reactive disk for the warrior, it should take care of the spawns.
Can take down the number to 2, the lyceum can be done 2ways, either AEing(you probably want a priest for holy nova, mages will die) ...
I think you got the thing wrong , i have done this like 40 times -
to help various melee in my guild and get totem for shamans off the boff before emperor.
All you need is - warrior/two shamen works too(for gathering the mobs) + healing + mage.
Warrior/shaman just runs forward and collect mobs , then you aoe.
You can spam arcane explossion and it will be enough. I was doing FN + cone of cold too.
Nothing else. Healing class - all you need from him is to have good gear 400+ healing , thats it.
I have +500 spell dmg but that doesnt help that much on insta cast aoes.
Hmm, royal seal, blackhand's breath, and HoJ are all very close in performance. Depending on a rogues total +hit, crit, build, and weapons, the value of each alters. BB turns hits into crits - which is great for specials. Seal turns misses into hits (only for white damage once you're over 5.6 to hit). HoJ procs more attacks. If your gear was good enough to crit cap you, specifically when fully raid buffed, then the +hit would be better than plus crit. I don't think that's the case here.
Going on my general fighting style i tend to have SnD constanly going aswell as blade flurry whenever it's cooled down and ready. That combined with being a dagger rogue thus having a relatively fast combat attack speed i feel that HoJ would be an upgrade from my current royal seal/Blackhands combination. I would of course be replacing Royal Seal (But keeping this for FR kit).
If you can get another epic geard sword/claw/mace rogue with AR, you can duo the Emps. That's how I got mine.
Clearing the Emps room gets pretty tedious, and sometimes that Golemagg looking dude can be a pain in the ass with his 8-9 second stun, if you're both on voice comm and timing your evasion +vanish tank swapping it should be fairly easy. AR is the key, if you both don't have it burning the Emp down before the 2nd evasion wears off is going to be difficult, as he will enrage and has a chance to flurry you. We just would ignore the Princess, although with great gear you both can pop Blade Flurry during your AR and kill her. Pretty good money if one of you is an enchanter.
Pardon me for butting into a melee conversation, but I'd love to have a better understanding of other classes and their gear.
I think one thing about the HoJ that makes it a bit different is that the extra swing can crit, which would make it more like 2 * (1 + crit_rate) for white damage. On the other hand, 2% hit will give you 2% less misses, which will be normal hits rather than the possibility of crits due to the table-based evaluation.
Also, I could be wrong, but the tooltip seems to indicate that it can proc off of offhand hits, in which case I'd assume it procs a MH swing. If the MH has higher average damage, then that's another thing that could make it more than a 2% dps boost.
Can the extra hit proc weapon enchants? I've always been so confused as to what can proc from what.
Can take down the number to 2, the lyceum can be done 2ways, either AEing(you probably want a priest for holy nova, mages will die) ...
I think you got the thing wrong , i have done this like 40 times -
to help various melee in my guild and get totem for shamans off the boff before emperor.
All you need is - warrior/two shamen works too(for gathering the mobs) + healing + mage.
Warrior/shaman just runs forward and collect mobs , then you aoe.
You can spam arcane explossion and it will be enough. I was doing FN + cone of cold too.
Nothing else. Healing class - all you need from him is to have good gear 400+ healing , thats it.
I have +500 spell dmg but that doesnt help that much on insta cast aoes.
Erm, I said you can take the number of people needed for it to 2, and you're saying all you need is 5people? Obviously with a full group it doens't matter what you take, but if you have only 2people, you better get a holy priest for AE, instead of a mage, cause a mage won't survive long enough to clear the whole thing I believe(maybe with a good usage of bandage/food and not getting hit by any of the patrols, but that's quite a bet). A warrior+shaman will have trouble AEing fast and efficiently, cleave is good but only hits 2 targets and is on next hit, which isn't great, whrilwind only hits 4 and has 10secs cooldown. It takes quite some time to kill stuff with this combo, and the shaman will probably run out of mana at some point so you'll need to drink. Definitely doable, but harder than warrior+priest or rogue+priest.
As for HoJ power, unless they changed it I was under the impression that getting a proc from your offhand will make you hit with your main hand, which means with a fast offhand and slow main hand, the benefit is greater than 2%crit or 2%hit alltogether(unless you're not capped on hit% for specials, but then that's just terrible anyway).
They moved it several patches ago when the revisions to BRD/Strath/Scholo/UBRS were put in. It's now gone from a soloable but incredibly annoying farm to a nigh-impossible solo farm for most classes.
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.
Pardon me for butting into a melee conversation, but I'd love to have a better understanding of other classes and their gear.
I think one thing about the HoJ that makes it a bit different is that the extra swing can crit, which would make it more like 2 * (1 + crit_rate) for white damage. On the other hand, 2% hit will give you 2% less misses, which will be normal hits rather than the possibility of crits due to the table-based evaluation.
Also, I could be wrong, but the tooltip seems to indicate that it can proc off of offhand hits, in which case I'd assume it procs a MH swing. If the MH has higher average damage, then that's another thing that could make it more than a 2% dps boost.
Can the extra hit proc weapon enchants? I've always been so confused as to what can proc from what.
The extra attack, I believe, has a chance to miss though. Looking at just the MH white damage, 2% Thrash is almost identical to 2% Hit. For specials, 2% Hit is much better up until 6%, and since rogues get a talent for 5% Hit, 2% Thrash definately beats it out. For OH white damage, because OH procs trigger a MH swing, so the 2% Thrash is better than 2% Hit if your MH has a higher damage range than your OH.
I know extra attacks can proc firey (and proc each other) I would assume they proc anything that could normally proc, the extra attack is simply a reset of the attack timer and not an actual 'free attack'
run through, ignore dwarfs
jump through the first window on the right
Don't sprint down the hall though...
When we were farming Incendius for FR gear every rogue I did this with sprinted down the hall the first time. Nothing like seeing them come flying through the window over you and over the ledge to a fiery death in the lava below.
09/29/06, 3:27 AM
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