I searched and could not find a post discussing this topic, so I will ask.
Is requiring guild members to mandatory spec a PvE viable spec worth it? Im not talking about resto-spec'd shamans and druids, Im simply asking is it a big enough change/buff/improvement to the raid to make rogues, hunters, mages & warlock spec so they are "more potent" in raids.
Sure its been decided again and again that PvE spec is better for raids, but thats it. All you can do is raid with this spec. My guild is not hardcore, we only raid 3 days a week and have barely touched AQ40. So I ask, what am I/we supposed to do the rest of the time?
I know it can/could change in Naxx because of time limits on bosses and such but not being in naxx I wouldn't know.
Player > Gear > Spec. Especially pre-AQ40, as long as you dont have a retard running around taunting the drakes in BWL toward your raid you really cant go wrong, regardless of spec. Sure it makes things a little easier, but not much.
IMHO if you're forcing specs on your healers, you should force them on DPS as well. Not just for the fairness factor, but for the simple fact that DPS specced for optimal raid DPS = faster kills. Or to put it in a Praetorian manner, DPS > All.
And if holy/disc specced priests and holy/prot paladins can farm, and your raid-specced DPS can't, something is very very wrong.
DeeNogger: "No dot timer? Get your belt off, its spanking time."
Unless you are hitting a dps brick wall (huhuran I think is your first), no specific talent spec is required just a couple of key talent points. Some key talent points on horde include defiance on the tank(s), and threat reduction talents on the offensive casters. Suggestions include priests with 14 points into disc / 2 in holy (usually taken anyway), paladins should hopefully have 20 points in holy, shaman and druids should hopefully have 21 points in resto.
It's nice to encourage it and hope people respec on their own. For example, my guild let anyone raid with any spec, and we had hemmo rogues, dagger prep rogues, shadow priests, ret paladins, etc. However, we had a few pve spec people that always blew everyone else away. We had a combat dagger rouge who destroyed the damage meters, nobody could touch him, but it didn't really matter for the longest time, because a full raid of pve specced people is completely unneccesary in BWL. Then we got to the twin emps, we saw that our DPS was nowhere close to being enough, and we saw the shadowpreists and feral druids going oom after like 7 minutes. We then looked at the damage meters, looked at the healing meters, and then people just started respeccing on their own. It helps to have a few PvE spec people so that people can see what the specs can actually do, some sort of basis of comparison.
And if you don't feel like reading through the other threads to see this, it also helps to let people bring their alts (that obviously are not pve specced) to lower instances ie. zg/aq20/mc/bwl etc, so they have something to do when they aren't raiding.
This topic has been done a few times, but perhaps not too recently. Anyway, I think that at a minimum, people with PvP specs should be using extra consumables to pull their weight. From a guild perspective, depending on your level of progression and time spent raiding, forced specs are probably counterproductive and will diminish the overall enjoyment of many of your players. If you only raid 3 days a week, and at least one of those days is spent doing trivial farm content where you could be specced 0/0/0 and still do just fine, then it's hard to justify it.
That said, as you've acknowledged, a PvP-specced DPS class is often worth a fraction of a PvE-specced one, all else being equal. Two combat daggers rogues can do the same damage as three prep-spec or Hemo-spec or whatever rogues in most situations. It's not fair, from a teamwork angle, to have some people freeloading while others carry all the weight. Now, if the shadow priest uses mana oils regularly and pops healing pots and mageblood, he can keep up with his holy/disc brethren who do not. If the Hemo rogue always has Mongoose, Juju, and Firewater in effect, he can probably keep up with the combat dagger rogues who do not. And so forth.
Of course, if everyone is just fine that Joe Stunlock the PvP rogue is outdamaged by half the raid, then whatever, ignore all of the above. But I think the best angle from which to approach it is one of fairness to the other 39 people on the raid: People should remember that no matter the level of progression, they aren't just there to leech epics; they have a responsibility to help earn them.
In most cases, it only takes 10% or so off the top end. It might make your learning curve on a boss *slightly* longer, but in all honesty, analyze your wipes and determine what caused it. I think you'll find out that very rarely was a wipe due to insufficient DPS or healers all going out of mana. This changes in Naxx (and some fights in AQ40) as you run into hard enrage timers, but until then you have nothing to worry about -- and even in Naxx, you don't run into the DPS gear check until Patchwerk.
Offspecs definitely should be compensating with consumables, and more importantly (in the case of a shadow specced priest who is slotted in as a healer in raids) NEED to be taking appropriate healing gear. And finally the offspecs need to approach their raid role enthusiastically. Nobody wants to hear the shadow priest or the feral druid constantly bitch about having to heal.
Finally, as you said you're not in a hardcore raiding gear, you only raid 3 days a week. I could perhaps see forcing mandatory specs if you're a cutting edge guild, you're deep into Naxx and trying to squeeze out that extra 5% to get the last few bosses down. I think most reasonable people would respec on their own volition if you were that close and it could make the difference. But for BWL or AQ40? Outside of having the requisite protection tanks, it really doesn't matter. And offspecs are rewarded in AQ40 fairly nicely. Stunlocks are great for Sartura and eyes at C'thun. An extra silence from shadow priests is gold at C'thun -- and heck, we even have druids that drop into bear form and feral charge small eyes->bash when a mage or two was out of place.
09/30/06, 6:24 AM
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