This is an excellent spreadsheet and I'm just po'd that a good EJ thread has to look like a WoW general forums thread 'cause a few idjits can't resist the urge to look dumb ONE more time.
EDIT: Noticed you banned the guy, thanks. Funny how something I made to help people gets trolled. :(
In your first post you ask for people to reply to it on your forums. A reasonable request to keep discussion in one area, as opposed to scatted to multiple message boards. Unfortunately, that means the only discussion on this forum will probably be trolls of some sort.
Oh man, tell me you aren't rolling a BE paladin, Overen.
Pretty cool stuff. Damn that must have taken a while to make.
Yes, I am. ;) Holy/Prot to be exact. It's been 2 years and I sorely need a change of pace and something new to do.
Ironically enough, Overen, several of our rogues are going through the same syndrome. Getting terribly bored of doing the same thing and just playing a rather disengaging raid class.
Does the weight of spellcrit/int change as spellcrit/int and plus heal and rank increase?
Also would be nice to tune gear to a fight length rather than burst longterm or balanced.
Havnt really looked much yet at which ranks will be castable constantly and the % of +heal those will receive. Ie which spell will have the lowest mana cost / second after factoring in dr on downranking. But that will change the way in which paladin healing spreadsheet should be calced possibly until regen increases again.
edit:
For example i would call martyr 63+heal now and redemption 51.4 with .5263% spellcrit which means if illumination is not being used average heal would need to be at least 967 for redemption to be better. Less if starting crit is above 0%. If illumination is being used that would change to only needing average heal of 589 which decreases as spell crit increases above 0% as a starting point.
Ultimately it doesnt matter too much as the next best rings PEB and unanswered prayers have a similar +heal and lower crit but im interisted in how you do your formulas.
Another one would be blue dragon card which you havnt modelled.
Just looked through your numbers and its showing 59.5 int/spellcrit which is unliklely for a paladin. I usually use 1 per 28.5 int. Also not certain what level you are calcing for as FoL7 is not l60 and spell crit will change as level increases.
edit2:
Enchants seem to be handled really well. Any way you could do consumables in a similar manner? Ie calc which consumable would be best use of shared cooldowns and give number for with consumables and without. I remember when i was calcing for starting raiding in MC i needed to used ~superior mana pots to allow for constant casting and would be interisted with what it would take at the theorised l40 DR for max effectiveness of +heal.
Given short enough fight time of course though even non sustainable chain casting is the best option to either conserve consumables or make use of initial mana batter most efficiently.
As a long-time paladin I can say that the spreadsheet does nearly the exact same suggestions for gear that I would do! So I assume you did your job very good. The assumptions and calculations you made are basically correct and the spreadsheet displays the stuff in a nice manner.
Band of unanswered prayer scales better with gear is the simple version. Changeing the top left column on the "Base" page will change the item values but im not sure what they change exactly in the calcs.
Also spell crit becomes more effective when upranking.
How exactly does it scale better with gear? (Because of Holy Guidance?)
If anything, the mana regen is more than enough for it.
(Beside, is there a way to remove any gear put Plate? xD I know, but I will never wear cloth, it's crap. ;p)
Basically on a naked character both give x benefit.
The mp5 may become more useful in certain situations if you think of it as spells becoming a 30:1 healing:mana ratio eventually but i prefer to assume that extra mana does not increase rate at the healing:mana ratio but at the rate which applying increased mana to a spell would increase healing.
While spell crit without illumination becomes worth less as spell crit rate increases the same as melee crit does when illumination is factored in that changes. Since 98 spell crit being increased by 1% is over a 50% increase in effectiveness with illumination while without it is roughly a .25% increase.
The other side of spell crit is as the spell crit is applied to larger and larger spells it becomes worth more. The way i like to think of it is in terms of HPS. 1% spell crit at 500 HPS increases healing by 2.5 HPS. While the same 1% spellcrit on a 1000 HPS spell increases healing by 5 HPS. So as your gear increases, or you get new spells spellcrit becomes worth more.
Of course from 60-70 spell crit rate decreases by roughly half from spell crit bonus on items but im not sure at which rate it falls from int:spellcrit.
So if you think of it as a 60 going to 70 with the same gear spell crit and int gets worse less while if you have a 60 or a 70 staying at the same level and gaining new spells talents or gear spell crit and int get better.
Of course from 60-70 spell crit rate decreases by roughly half from spell crit bonus on items but im not sure at which rate it falls from int:spellcrit.
As far as I know, in order to gain 1% spell crit as a Paladin once you reach level 70 you will need 80 INT. (Or at least that's what the current The Burning Crusade client tells me.)
So if you think of it as a 60 going to 70 with the same gear spell crit and int gets worse less while if you have a 60 or a 70 staying at the same level and gaining new spells talents or gear spell crit and int get better.
The only thing I hope is that they continue to add items sets or at least a lots of items that are pretty much the same as the Redemption Set. This set is absolutely fabulous, great item set bonuses, huge stats and healing and the loads of mana regen is so great.
To me, Redemption Set is THE best set in the game, I don't care about crap gear like Avenger's Set. They aren't even worth being mentionned in the thread anyway.
JUst hope they don't derive too much from Redemption Set, I like my Healadin, I don't want some kind of crap tanking gear or retribution gear.
Yep i have no knowledge on what int:spellcrit ratio is at 70. 60 is between 25 and 30, so 70 at 80 is a massive nerf to illumination.
The 50% number is because each level spell crit rating becomes ~7% less effective. So at +10 levels 1% spell crit becomes worth .483% spell crit. Or to but it a little more simply a level 60 item will have 14 spell crit rating and a level 70 item will have 28 spell crit rating to achieve the same spell crit. This has the effect of reducing spell crits across the board unless ilvl scales a lot faster than predicted.
This results in spell crit scaling 30% better than int for paladins which is disapointing. As int is already basically pointless for paladins outside of its spell crit due to chain casting and its getting even more useless.
The only reason i would take the healadin arena set over the one with strength is if the resilience stat proves to be very useful at increasing survivability since the int is pointless.
To me, Redemption Set is THE best set in the game, I don't care about crap gear like Avenger's Set. They aren't even worth being mentionned in the thread anyway.
JUst hope they don't derive too much from Redemption Set, I like my Healadin, I don't want some kind of crap tanking gear or retribution gear.
For those of us who actually want to do something outside of grouping/instances or press the flash of light key, I hope there are plenty of Avenger-style options, and also some type of tank sets. If paladins are going to be effective off-tanks, there is going to have to be the gear to support it.
For those of us who actually want to do something outside of grouping/instances or press the flash of light key, I hope there are plenty of Avenger-style options, and also some type of tank sets. If paladins are going to be effective off-tanks, there is going to have to be the gear to support it.
I wouldn't mind it if wasn't for the case that we have no idea what kind of gear await the Paladin.
If they just pretty much stop the idea of doing gear that is pretty much like Redemption Set there is absolutely not a single reason for me to play a Paladin anymore. :|
Beside, the reason I would love to see more gear ala Redemption Set is because I constantly PVP with it.. Yeah, might sound weird but I just don't see how a two-hand weapon or gear like Avenger will help me heal my mates, recover mana fast and gains a lots of stamina without gimping entirely my entire set in PVP.. =/
The problem is that lawbringer judgement and avengers suck in raids and redemption sucks out of raids unless you healbot in pvp.
Or to put it in a differant style healbot gear wont help me level to 70 or farm consumables unless i do it with an aoe class.
Everyone just wants more choice, or gear that does 2 things at once like the new druid arena set without being gimp at both like the paladin t1 and t2 sets.
Blizzard will either get itemisation right or they wont, not too much point worrying about it. And either way if they only release 1 set per progression instance it will either be bad or one group of people will be unhappy so hopefully more choice is allowed.
I really do think that pally sets should have +strength/+agility/+meleecrit and +healing with whichever costs the least points not counting though.
edit: Just realised strength will mitigate damage slightly as will agility but i honestly cant really see it being abused on healing gear. If blizz really wanted paladins to be squishy when healing they wouldnt have made redemption anyway.
Blizzard will either get itemisation right or they wont, not too much point worrying about it. And either way if they only release 1 set per progression instance it will either be bad or one group of people will be unhappy so hopefully more choice is allowed.
Adding more than 1 set for for each class would be the best thing possible.
One for Retribution? Protection? Holy? Just choose your!
For those of us who actually want to do something outside of grouping/instances or press the flash of light key, I hope there are plenty of Avenger-style options, and also some type of tank sets. If paladins are going to be effective off-tanks, there is going to have to be the gear to support it.
At least with the healing to mana conversion non set 'warrior' pieces should become viable for paladins if mana regen and int are not needed on gear. That just leaves the issue of set bonuses, talents and the whole shield block crushing thing.
Unless paladins wind up as the aoe tanking class and single target threat is inadequate which is quite likely if battleshout gets nerfed.
The whole redemption vs. other sets is a bit of a sidebar to the point of the thread, but I will add my thoughts :)
It will be interesting to see what they do with itemization. There is plenty of evidence to support Nax items being upgraded on the way to (or certainly soon after) level 70. I wonder if that will hold true with a set like Redemption which has nearly all of the stats allocated for one particular role. If most of the new armor/sets are hybrid oriented, Redemption may well last a lot longer than other pre-BC gear. Think of items like the Belt of the Ordained, Gallant's wristguards, etc. For straight up healing these are arguably better than anything until Redemption.
Personally I'd love to get a new tanking set, hybrid set, healing set, etc. It's hell having to hold onto them all but I would much rather wear gear that is appropriate to what I'm doing. Of course, our role in BC raids is not set in stone since we have no idea what we'll see, but we can make some pretty good guesses.
10/03/06, 4:52 PM
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