Just looked through your numbers and its showing 59.5 int/spellcrit which is unliklely for a paladin. I usually use 1 per 28.5 int. Also not certain what level you are calcing for as FoL7 is not l60 and spell crit will change as level increases.
I pulled everything out of wowwiki. Are the formulas there wrong?
Check this one out. Everything i have seen for pallys has been somewhere between 25 and 30. 28.5 is a pretty common one.
And the other bloke in this thread is saying hes getting 80 int for 1 spell crit from the expansion tool tip which is a bad sign. As i understand it expansion is currently capped at about level 67 so effectiveness has gone down a lot.
This is bad for paladins since spell crit and illumination in particular are a large part of paladins effectiveness currently at healing. Could mean 20 points in holy isnt required for healing though which some people may like.
Conversely spell crit means so little for paladins in DPS terms that it shouldnt have much of an affect there at all.
Something that might deal with the Avenger/Redemption styles of gear choices in the expansion would be a turn in choice for gear. Instead of getting 'X' drop to get 'Y' gear, you could choose 'Y' or 'Z' gear. This would allow hybrid classes to choose which way they play their class and IF in the expasion you still have the same # of bosses as in current raid zones, it allows you to build your gear up for your primary roll and then pick up gear to fill a secondary roll as well.
Overen and Underen - what's next for your pally? Hopefully you'll be my pocket healer in the arena as I mutilate some Alliance shamans!
Really hope they're able to tune raid trash and bosses for a Paladin tanking role. The most fun I had on my paladin was doing Strat and Scholo, grabbing aggro on 7-8 mobs with Consecration+Righteous Fury, while still being able to heal with 100% uninteruptable heals. Really felt like that was what the class was meant for, and why they kick so much ass in PvP.
Cool spreadsheep, but you forgot all the awesome %crit mail gear you'll be needing to roll on to progress! I'm guessing socketed items are part of Blizzards answer to the Great Hybrid Gear Debate. You could be able to loot an item for a quest for a tiered set piece as a Paladin, but depending on your spec you can allocate +defense and +hp for a Tankadin or +heal +spell crit for a Healdin in the socketed areas.
Beside, the reason I would love to see more gear ala Redemption Set is because I constantly PVP with it.. Yeah, might sound weird but I just don't see how a two-hand weapon or gear like Avenger will help me heal my mates, recover mana fast and gains a lots of stamina without gimping entirely my entire set in PVP.. =/
Its not weird, it's just one play-style. I crack out my redempt to healbot sometimes also, just it isnt the only thing paladins can do, and i'm not always with a group that's worth healing. :P With bubble being dispellable and minimal extra burst healing capacity, along with priests getting improved survivabiliy, we'll have to see if priests aren't just better in that role altogether anyway.
I've had a look and it's pretty accurate though it slightly overvalues spell crit and undervalues +healing imo.
Paladins have great mana efficiency even if you spec less than 20 holy (no illumination), the downside to paladin healing has always been weak HPS (yes like dps but health per second). +healing is the only gauranteed way to improve HPS, crit just gives you streaks of good hps and bad hps.
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Its not weird, it's just one play-style. I crack out my redempt to healbot sometimes also, just it isnt the only thing paladins can do, and i'm not always with a group that's worth healing. :P With bubble being dispellable and minimal extra burst healing capacity, along with priests getting improved survivabiliy, we'll have to see if priests aren't just better in that role altogether anyway.
I guess, but if the Paladin just become "weaker" compared to Priest there isn't a single point anymore to play as a Paladin.. =/
It is great having a way to waste time when that boring professor drones on and on about nothing and yet I'm on my laptop so I can't actually acess WoW.
Allthough I'm a little late to both of these conversations, from what I have read so far just in the NDA Lifted thread and other threads about release. Blizzard is supposedly doing an amazing job of making viable gear for every existing spec. Not to mention the new socketing system is going to add even more customizability(is this even a real word? Should probably just say customization, but I digress).
I too am growing bored of my rogue mains simple combat daggers routine.
#1 Find Back of Target
#2. BS to 5 Bubbles
#3. SnD
#4. Repeat
#5. ???
#6. Profit
But anyway I tried a warrior for a while and tanking was pretty fun but the DPS warrior mode proved to be as boring as the rogue. So right now I'm torn in between a pally or shaman (Hybrids ftw). Hopefully you find your class and I find mine.
But last of all great calc. I'm constantly amazed by the knowledge you all have of Excel and just the game mechanics in general. Great work and try and keep it updated as we begin to progress into TBC.
**As far as having the spreadsheet discussions on your own board. I personally reccomend having them here. No shortage of Theorycrafters (Excellent ones at that) and it will also serve as a self bump so more people will continue to see/discuss the sheet**
This seems to be turning into a more general paladin thread, but to stay on topic (at first), thanks for the calculator. The gear that's going to be available to us is bounds ahead of what we have now in the dps/tanking departments, and I'm going to be referring to this thing a lot I think :D
Looking at this new gear, the new talents(changed redoubt), new spells(righteous defense), and changes to coefficients(consecrate at 73% of spell damage), to me it seems they are really setting up paladins to be the premiere aoe tanks. Even without a battle shout nerf, with 3/3 Imp. RF I can easily pull off warriors using battle shout spam in the live game with a consecrate. As gear scales and coefficients change, I would not be surprised if there are plenty of "paladin-tank" designed encounters involving a large number of non-elite mobs(I'm thinking supression rooms, AQ tunnel, Naxx spider wing; things which I am already the "tank" in the live game). In this case the new redoubt will pull ahead of shield block, though likely not demo shout+thunderclap+defensive stance(although 2 of those 3 can be used with us- if anyone would like to crunch some numbers on this, btw, they are welcome to). It's in this context that Ardent Defender actually makes some sense as well(though I am still somewhat furious about the lack of mitigation talents in prot).
To me it seems clear that with HoT stacking, and new healing spells for priests, druids, and resto shaman, as well as new mana regen capabilities for those classes, boosting their healing longevity(our class's trademark), paladin healing is very likely to be marginalized. Not to say I don't enjoy or intend to be healing in the expansion, but if it's the primary draw of the class for you (and I can think of several paladins in my guild who fit this description), everything seems to indicate disappointment is in the cards.
On the flipside, as for priest healbot pvp survivability, nothing I've seen really would put them ahead of us. True, the bubble is no longer a guarantee in every situation, but their best new survivability talent (Pain Suppression) is just as dispellable as BoP. We'll have shamans on our side now, so we expect their bubbles won't last as long either. And if I were a priest, the prospect of the sure-to-be-common MS/Death Wish warriors would probably make me afraid to step foot in an arena. Further, if you happen to roll with an affliction warlock on your side(as I fortunately will be doing) then I doubt anyone is gonna risk an aoe dispel.
Ironically, there's really not too much better healing so far than Redemption... most of the really good improvements are in the tanking/DPS department, you're right.
I'm going to work next on modelling out judgements/consecrate/etc, I just haven't figured out a slick way to do it yet that's to my liking. Any other suggestions for things I missed/messed up would be appreciated.
Overen's sheet does healing and dps comparisons, and making a spreadsheet about a class teaches you a few things about the class (since he is a Rogue, it is good to learn the differences)
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10/04/06, 10:54 AM
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