Ahoy hoy folks. With Burning Crusade just around the corner....(proverbially anyway)...I'm just a littel bit curious as to how I can improve the guide that I've been maintaining for the better part of the year regarding Enhancement items at the beginning and end of the game.
I understand this place is a veritable repository of information so I would deeply appreciate any feedback I can get on this guide and what improvements if any, I can make regarding what direction I should take the guide from here on out. Lately I've been having a tough time coming up with new things to improve it so anything you can point out to me would be appreciated.
Greatcow, I have always liked you guide, it is one of the few decent posts of the WoW forums.
There really isn't much I would add since the only changes to Enchancement are in TBC, and without solid details/testing, it is hard to write up a guide to the new talents.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Cool thanks man! I understand your point on the BC, I really need to get my paws on the new stuff and make a whole DW section I guess, it can't come soon enough! -_-
Thinking about mixing/matching weapons as an enhancement shaman for spellpower vs. melee power, what would be the implications of having weapon-swap macro's for stuff like shocks?, I know weapon swapping proc's the global cooldown, but what does it do to swing timers? Global doesn't matter all that much for a shaman compared to a rogue/warrior since they only have 2 instants (shocks, stormstrike), so would it be worth it to switch back and forth? Say go from dual weilding straight DPS weapons to main handing a gladiator's spellblade (167 spellpower) and offhanding a HWL spellblade (72 spellpower) or even a claw of chrom (64 spellpower), or some equivalent expansion offhandable spellpower even with the crummy % that shocks get for contribution, bouncing up by over 200 spellpower before laying out an earthshock (or lightning bolt for a runner?), especially if you're leveraging a stormstrike debuff? Would that be worth the micro effort?, and what would it do to your swing cycle? Similarly what would be the consequence of swapping in slow weapons for stormstrike, then back to fast weapons for general unleashed rage uptime?, even if it interrupts swing cycles it would be less frequent than shock switching would be (and if you could find a slow spellpower pairing, you could combine both cycles).
Looking up items for this example I noticed something else - the new spellpower dagger (arena) is main hand (presumably to stop shamans dual wielding them), but the old ones are 1h (since it really didn't matter - no caster could dual wield) - will they retroactivly change the current GM/HWL stuff, because if they don't it seems that they might end up more powerfull than intended.
Finally, and somewhat more on topic is the speed issue for weapons - assuming windfury continues to count as an attack for proc based effects (which seems reasonable) enhancement shaman have a bit of a 2-way pull going, on the one hand slower weapons benefit more from WF (unless WF becomes PPM), as would shamanistic rage (assuming PPM) synergized with WF (side question - does shamanistic rage proccing off a WF or rockbiter swing use your normal AP or your temporarily adjusted AP for that weapon when it procs?), while unleashed rage obviously favors fast weapons since they crit more - as soon as we know more about any WF revisions/proc calculation on rage it seems like it would be usefull to include calculations along those lines in the overview once the data becomes available (well unleashed rage uptimes based on crit rating and weapon speed are obviously fairly easy to do now, but probably not worth doing in isolation).
WF is a 20% chance proc, the effect of which scales with the speed of the weapon. It doesn't favour any speed for sustained DPS. If you have a slow weapon, you'll get less procs, but they'll hit harder. If you have a fast weapon, it'll proc more often, but won't hit as hard.
WF is a 20% chance proc, the effect of which scales with the speed of the weapon. It doesn't favour any speed for sustained DPS. If you have a slow weapon, you'll get less procs, but they'll hit harder. If you have a fast weapon, it'll proc more often, but won't hit as hard.
I'm pretty sure this leans in favor of fast weapons because of Flurry.
Except windfury also gives +AP, which is going to benefit weapons differently based on speed (which, granted is determined by the weapon type since it's normalized, and damn that screws daggers for shaman dual wielding, rogues should be happy at least), and with enchants/etc. working off PPM systems, those are going to get more from WF proc with slow weapons since a free attack means more, also WF procs from stormstrike will benefit more from slower weapons since they're "free" hits. Sorry, I'm used to thinking of WF in its "zomg pvp burst" aspect, as well as it's old unnormalized form, so slightly overestimated importance of slowness. Flurry however is a true wash insofar as weapon speed since there doesn't exist a weapon slow enough to run out of flurry charges due to time rather than swings (5.00 speed or slower AFTER flurry), although that too changes with dual wield since you run into the interaction between OH generating flurry charges (good) and using them (bad since MH hits harder), as well as the potential for that "extra" flurry attack with same-speed weapons.
Overall I'm guessing that the "optimal" configuration for DW will be equa-speed weapons that are as slow as you can get while still retaining a good uptime for unleashed rage, which doesn't seem like it'd be that hard, assuming ~25% crit rate (and assumed ~!0% chance to wiff in some manner) even with 2.8 speed weapons you'd have an 85% of getting at least 1 crit per 10 seconds, and once you get it proc'd you're sitting on a 35% crit rate and close to a 94% chance of getting at least 1 crit before it wears off (actually even better than that when you throw in flurry, WF and stormstrike).
What on earth is psychaotic on about?
I was under the impression that normalisation only occurred on certain attacks (Sinister Strike, Mortal Strike etc)...
Did WF get hit by the normalisation bat too? That doesn't make sense at all, unless it's a PPM, which it isn't... it's a flat % chance...
aburr?
PS. I thought it was common knowledge that over time, windfury increased the DPS of slow weapons as much as it did for fast weapons? Burst is a different story, but consistent damage...?
Maybe I am completly off my rocker, but I swear WF got normalized a few patches back, and yea, I'm too used to thinking of WF as burst (or bugged to do bizzare things to swing timers) which makes me pair it with slow.
That isn't to say that slow doesn't seem like it's probably going to be better for shaman, just that I'm overstating that fact.
Maybe I am completly off my rocker, but I swear WF got normalized a few patches back, and yea, I'm too used to thinking of WF as burst (or bugged to do bizzare things to swing timers) which makes me pair it with slow.
That isn't to say that slow doesn't seem like it's probably going to be better for shaman, just that I'm overstating that fact.
As far as I know windfury did NOT get normalized, but it got nerfed hardcore back in patch 1.11
Before, WF would 811 talented ap to the next two swings.
Now with talents it only gets 466. So in essence it did get normalized, but not like rogues or warriors did. For maximum burst a 3.8 weapon like Sulfuras is still king.
Ah, see I remember shouting about "WF normalization" and assumed it was the same type of normalization as the rest of us got, in which case yea, speed wouldn't matter for WF sustained until you throw weapon procs into the mix.
With regards to your wishlist profile, I think you are running with seriously too little mana. I used to be enhance and thought a bit of a more balanced approach towards mana was always preferable. At least get ZG enchants on your head/legs, I think they will provide more of an improvement that the current 8 agi and 8 str do.
All this talk goes down the crapper if they really change WF to be "strike equivelent to 2 swings". A raiding enhancement shammy will certainly be a UR bitch, and without the extra chances to crit he will probably have to go fast/fast. Can FT crit independant of the underlying swing? It's probably unknown if a FT crit will proc UR. It would suck if enhancements were forced to use FT to get better uptime on UR.
So its the first week of October with no beta still. 1.12 spent 5 weeks on the PTR, 1.11 spent 6. BC has to spend atleast that long in beta, and probably alot longer. I think the plan right now is to probably get the leveling experience done, and try and finish the end game while people are leveling up. 2-3 more weeks and they woln't even be able to do that, and will be forced to push back to after the holidays.
That would be ideal for me, because I'd prefer to see them do WF correctly as opposed to this "equivilent" hack. Also I might give our guild a chance to get deep into Nax "for real" as opposed to cheesing it with level 70's (phase 2 C'thun atm).
DW shaman will want +hit and +AP. The only problem is we do not know the names of the expansion gear or where they drop. When you get that info you can write an appropriate guide.
In the meantime collecting lvl 60 gear is not worth it. I am resto right now and will be our enhancement shaman in the expansion and aside from picking up a noth axe, I do not have a drop of enhancement gear. I do not think this will matter much as all the gear is getting replaced anyway
Except windfury also gives +AP, which is going to benefit weapons differently based on speed (which, granted is determined by the weapon type since it's normalized, and damn that screws daggers for shaman
Since it's only affecting White damage it's not normalized, only instant attacks were normed based on the weapon speed formulas.
The only thing I would do is create an alternate to melee damage in an enhancement build. High spell power for the elemental weapon buffs is no joke, and dual wielding with the intention of maximizing SPELL damage and not melee damage could be beneficial, or at least an alternative to the "I'm a caster rogue!" mentality.
ran into a shammy with severance today.. it made me giggle
Care to tell us why:
a) this comment is productive in this topic
b) you even decided to post it, severance being the one of the 3 best shaman 2 handers there is atm?
Well apparently there's a shaman who keeps running around in BGs with T3 shoulders and Severence on my server cluster, which amuses me- even though I know firsthand what shoulder mail itemization is like. Sulfs with T2 are a common sight as well....why would you...bah.
Anyway,
Flurry's interaction is 'on next swing' and while flurry is up I can't really see any way you could FAIL to swing 3 times as it lasts 15 seconds. Since under flurry, 9.2 would be all that's required for a 4.0 speed weapon (I think?), the odds of Flurry timing out rather than being used up is pretty minimal.
Question for warriors who may be reading this- I've heard from warriors both that offhands do and do not proc and consume flurry charges. Could a wiser head than I clarify?
Oh, and currently on live Flurry can proc from the 2 extra hits from WF but is not consumed by them, allowing us to get a 40% effective boost to our effective critrate with regards to it. No clue if that'll remain the same..
Originally Posted by bartolimu
It makes me want to hit Marge Thatcher on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
Offhand both procs and uses flurry charges, and in some situations where you speed-match weapons you can get a"bonus" flurry attack since the last charge affects both MH and OH. Flurry charges are also (currently) eaten by WF/HoJ and other "extra attack" abilities, the new version of WF would probably stop this from happening.
ran into a shammy with severance today.. it made me giggle
Care to tell us why:
a) this comment is productive in this topic
b) you even decided to post it, severance being the one of the 3 best shaman 2 handers there is atm?
Its a not so subtle (or particularly cordial) comment which probably meant:
1. At present, enhancement is a hobby build; and
2. a Severance in the hands of a shaman running around praying for a 20% proc to do significant damage is not as scary as a Severance in the hands of a warrior.
Ok then, so basically what I'm seeing so far as far where the guide should be headed from here on out:
A comprehensive Dual Wield Guide - Obviously difficult to do since we don't have access to itemization from the BC but everything that has been leaked so far seems to point to very awesome stuff.
Investigate pairing enhancement gear in a dual-wield scenario and investigate how that would help if anything.
Ok then, so basically what I'm seeing so far as far where the guide should be headed from here on out:
A comprehensive Dual Wield Guide - Obviously difficult to do since we don't have access to itemization from the BC but everything that has been leaked so far seems to point to very awesome stuff.
Investigate pairing enhancement gear in a dual-wield scenario and investigate how that would help if anything.
Continue to compile Gear as I see it appear asap
And try and get more mana on my gear :D
I think I'm getting a good idea here. :)
You are doing a good job even asking for feedback. I think serious enhance shaman will nearly all be duel wield, and if I was to attempt what you are attempting, thats where my focus would lie. Start with weapons accessable now.
Flurry charges are also (currently) eaten by WF/HoJ and other "extra attack" abilities, the new version of WF would probably stop this from happening.
Are you absolutely certain of this?
This directly contradicts some stuff I've seen.
Edit:
Clarifying, I mean that a shaman's WF selfbuff is NOT eating charges of flurry that I'm aware of (currently I do not have flurry so I cannot just test, and 100g just to test this seems excessive). I have never tested HoJ or WF totem.
Originally Posted by bartolimu
It makes me want to hit Marge Thatcher on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
10/03/06, 10:58 PM
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