Rage generation normalization in the Expansion

Gyshall · 10/04/06, 1:37 PM

Found a blue post on it in the WoW Warrior boards.

From http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...17883&pageNo=1 :

5. Yes, rage generation has been normalized somewhat (although it's difficult to notice with current gear for most players, it's more of a protection against continued scaling off into the future). It also benefits the sword & board case, allowing tanks that aren't dealing/taking a ton of damage to generate a little more rage (again, it's not a big difference compared to before, just a bit better).

Interesting, hopefully tanks will be able to use Shield Slam to a greater extent to build aggro when not tanking :)

Ubok · 10/04/06, 1:48 PM

Some clarification from the same thread:

In practical terms, it means if you have a high-end epic 2h weapon you'll generate a point or two less rage on normal hits, about 3 less on a crit in the same case.

As all of you are probably aware, warriors scale incredibly well with gear, this is intended to take a little bit of the suck out of having lesser gear (or sword/board), and a little bit of the insanity off of the effects of uber gear.

Again, it's actually very hard to notice, in fact I haven't seen our alpha testers mention it in any significance (although it's definitely working).

Kalman · 10/04/06, 1:48 PM

From later in the thread.

Originally Posted by Kalgan

In practical terms, it means if you have a high-end epic 2h weapon you'll generate a point or two less rage on normal hits, about 3 less on a crit in the same case.

As all of you are probably aware, warriors scale incredibly well with gear, this is intended to take a little bit of the suck out of having lesser gear (or sword/board), and a little bit of the insanity off of the effects of uber gear.

Again, it's actually very hard to notice, in fact I haven't seen our alpha testers mention it in any significance (although it's definitely working).

Gyshall · 10/04/06, 1:59 PM

I forgot to mention that with Spell Reflection, you can now reflect Death Coil! >=]

Xtee · 10/04/06, 2:01 PM

Originally Posted by Gyshall

I forgot to mention that with Spell Reflection, you can now reflect Death Coil! >=]

So then does the warlock still recieve the heal? Because if they got hit/healed for 500 it would have no damage effect on them.

Feorthas · 10/04/06, 2:04 PM

Originally Posted by Xtee

So then does the warlock still recieve the heal? Because if they got hit/healed for 500 it would have no damage effect on them.

I'd hope that not only would they gain 0 HP, but they'd be affected by the 3-second "Terror" debuff as well *evil grin*.

• frmorrison · 10/04/06, 2:06 PM

Normalization helps the causals/tanks, and if a death coil spell got reflected,the lock gets hit for 500, feared, and the lock then heals himself for 500.

Edited so it would be correct.

Largo · 10/04/06, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by Xtee

Originally Posted by Gyshall

I forgot to mention that with Spell Reflection, you can now reflect Death Coil! >=]

So then does the warlock still recieve the heal? Because if they got hit/healed for 500 it would have no damage effect on them.

With Shadow Reflector activated, the DC hit the Lock and dmg/healed himself.

Feorthas · 10/04/06, 2:34 PM

Originally Posted by Largo

With Shadow Reflector activated, the DC hit the Lock and dmg/healed himself.

Not trying to derail the thread here, but what happens if you cast a shadow spell on someone and you both have shadow reflectors active? Does it pingpong back and forth until one reflection buff wears off?

Ubok · 10/04/06, 2:38 PM

Originally Posted by Feorthas

Originally Posted by Largo

With Shadow Reflector activated, the DC hit the Lock and dmg/healed himself.

Not trying to derail the thread here, but what happens if you cast a shadow spell on someone and you both have shadow reflectors active? Does it pingpong back and forth until one reflection buff wears off?

I think you canÂ´t reflect reflections, if that made any sense. Works the same with 2 warriors popping retaliation and whacking each other.

Quasar · 10/04/06, 2:46 PM

Originally Posted by Feorthas

Originally Posted by Largo

With Shadow Reflector activated, the DC hit the Lock and dmg/healed himself.

Not trying to derail the thread here, but what happens if you cast a shadow spell on someone and you both have shadow reflectors active? Does it pingpong back and forth until one reflection buff wears off?

Come on, never played FF6??? Fighting an enemy that has Reflect, so you cast Reflect on your own guys and cast spells on yourselves!

Now what we really need is an X-Zone spell for Rogues that activates after Vanish...

Malan · 10/04/06, 2:52 PM

Interesting commentary there. Endless rage will work with execute? Holy crap.
Doesn't look the rage normalization is this huge "gloom and doom" deal like a lot of warriors had been proclaiming.

SonySwarm · 10/04/06, 2:54 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Interesting commentary there. Endless rage will work with execute? Holy crap.
Doesn't look the rage normalization is this huge "gloom and doom" deal like a lot of warriors had been proclaiming.

Just the base cost, any extra rage (which you will obviously have) will add further damage.

Xtee · 10/04/06, 3:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gyshall

Found a blue post on it in the WoW Warrior boards.

From http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...17883&pageNo=1 :

5. Yes, rage generation has been normalized somewhat (although it's difficult to notice with current gear for most players, it's more of a protection against continued scaling off into the future). It also benefits the sword & board case, allowing tanks that aren't dealing/taking a ton of damage to generate a little more rage (again, it's not a big difference compared to before, just a bit better).

Interesting, hopefully tanks will be able to use Shield Slam to a greater extent to build aggro when not tanking :)

I see that this is #5, Could sombody please paste the rest of the post here for those of us at work unable to check the retard boards?

impossible! · 10/04/06, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by Xtee

I see that this is #5, Could sombody please paste the rest of the post here for those of us at work unable to check the retard boards?

Absolutely:

Originally Posted by Kalgan

Originally Posted by some random guy

Q u o t e:
Seeing as how you've visted the mages and answered some of thier burning questions, I got my own batch for you.

1. Regarding Tactical Mastery, many view that moving this talent into the Protection Tree was a nerf in order to prevent the MS/Flurry build. Is there any truth to this? If so why not change the talents so this won't be as overpowered as it seems to be? If it was to make it more available to Protection warriors, why not just switch it with deflection in the arms tree, as right now, a Protection warrior will still have to invest 5 points into arms, where as if it were switched with deflection, they could need to invest only 3 for TM.

2. Regarding Endless Rage and Spell Reflection, since Spell Reflection doesn't have a cooldown, that makes for Spell Reflection spam a viable tactic against casters. Is this under consideration for change or does the need for a 1h and shield and the global cooldown make this balanced? Also will this reflect the seemingly uncounterable Death Coil?

3. Will Intervene and Intercept share a cooldown? And if so, will they both be affected by the Improved Intercept talent?

4. And another Endless Rage question. How will this ability work with execute, provided the opponent is below 20%?

5. Are there any plans at the moment to normalize rage generation?

1. The change was definitely made in order to ensure that there were viable DPS alternatives to MS/Flurry for an arms warrior. I'm certain that without that change, MS/Flurry would have been the only way to go. Don't think for a second that the idea of having TM as tier 1 arms and Deflection as tier 1 prot didn't occur to us, but the reality is that all it would have done is lower all dps warrior's parry percentages by 5, but every arms warrior would still be looking at 31/30.

The other obvious ways to approach it are either to have extremely powerful talents beyond 30 for arms (but this causes huge problems the next time we raise the level cap and you can get those new overpowered talents and still get flurry), or to nerf flurry (which I'd rather not do, since I feel it's a tree-defining talent).

I very much feel that having TM at tier 1 prot opens up a ton of new possibilities, including builds that don't take all 5 points in TM, builds that use the 5 points in TM to make it worth continuing down to Last Stand (which = hotness in arena combat btw, while also keeping you pretty well balanced for raid tanking if you do that too since you probably scooped up toughness on the way). These examples, along with the possibilities for arms-heavy builds and all of the typical fury heavy builds become realistic to expect with this change.

2. Actually, we're in the process of trying out spell reflection with a 10s cooldown. Generally speaking, we try to avoid cooldowns whenever we can, and honestly this is a case where the cooldown is pretty important to have in PvE rather than PvP (smart players can react to spell reflection by casting a relatively meaningless spell to knock it down, but the mobs aren't quite so clever). It's still super-cool in pvp even with the cooldown, and has a lot of potential to distinguish skilled players from unskilled (if you time it well, spell reflect can win a fight for you). Yes, it can also reflect Death Coil.

3. No, they're on seperate cooldowns.

4. It reduces the base rage cost to 0. It'll stil consume any rage you have to deal extra damage, but the base cost is reduced to zero.

5. Yes, rage generation has been normalized somewhat (although it's difficult to notice with current gear for most players, it's more of a protection against continued scaling off into the future). It also benefits the sword & board case, allowing tanks that aren't dealing/taking a ton of damage to generate a little more rage (again, it's not a big difference compared to before, just a bit better).