Heigan -- mysterious extra splash.

• Arawethion · 10/06/06, 2:26 AM

Ok, so we have officially spent more time on Heigan without killing him than on any other Naxx boss so far. It seems out of whack. The reason I'm posting here, though, is because we saw something tonight, which we hadn't seen before in two other nights at the boss, that seriously tripped us up and delayed our kill (everyone is getting sick of that gauntlet).

The tanking phase is 90s long, and during it, splashes come 10s apart. The first splash comes 15s after you pull him, and the last (a splash 2) with exactly 5s to go. We have the melee run up to the platform right then to meet the rest of the raid, and all hop down into section 1 right as Heigan ports onto the platform. The tank just waits in 2, and runs over into 1 at the teleport.

On one of our transitions today, the second of a pull, everything was looking normal. At the final splash 2, I call "last splash, everyone ready for dance phase, jump when you want." Heigan ports, everyone hops down and gets ready for the splash 1 that starts the dance phase. And then a splash 3 fires and wipes us.

We wrote it off once, but it happened again on the next pull, again on the second transtion of the fight. I was watching more carefully what happened:
In the first tanking phase, splashes always come with 15s to go, and then 5s to go, and then no more. In the second tanking phase and after, splashes were coming with 18s to go, 8s to go, and 2 sec after he ported.

The end result of this is that right as we're trying to transition, we have a splash3 followed immediately by a splash1. This makes the transtion very hard on the raid, who has to time their jump right after the "late" splash (which sometimes doesn't come at all, making the waiting especially annoying), and before the first pulse of Heigan's 4k poison aura on the platform. It's even worse for the tank, who has no safe path. He can't bring Heigan up to the platform early because of the Mana Burn. He has to wait for the port, survive splash 3, and then try to desperately make it over to 1, causing him to inevitably get blown up somewhere in the middle of 2. Eventually he made it work by charging up and over the platform, assuming that one tick of the 4k aura wouldn't kill him.

Anyone encountered this before? My hypothesis is that the eighth splash of a tanking phase (a splash 2) is intended to be the last one. Some lag effect is delaying Heigan's teleport more than it is delaying the splashes, and causing an extra splash to appear, turning the transition into a real mess.

Or is this supposed to be a possibility? Were we just very lucky for many pulls, causing us to believe that the fight is easier than it actually is?

Thanks.

--------------------------

While I'm on the topic of Heigan:
Is a backup tank worth it, or do you just have to have an MT who perfectly survives the movement phase every time?

Are tank deaths reasonable at all? How bad is the healing at this fight?

Steelfleece · 10/06/06, 2:33 AM

Heigan's 4k poison aura does not tick immediately, or quickly at all(I think it takes 5 seconds from when he ports until it ticks? Maybe even longer). If you wait until he actually teleports and/or yells "The end is upon you" before you move, you will make it in more than enough time and avoid any bonus splash.

dojke · 10/06/06, 2:35 AM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

I was watching more carefully what happened:
In the first tanking phase, splashes always come with 15s to go, and then 5s to go, and then no more. In the second tanking phase and after, splashes were coming with 18s to go, 8s to go, and 2 sec after he ported.

When it happens it happens exactly as you say above. It's annoying, but it's quite easy to predict. As you stated, if there's 7-9 seconds left on the timer when a splash happens, then you're going to get a post-teleport one. You just have to get used to it.

If you have a tank death, it's almost certainly a decursing problem. He simply doesn't hit at all (as witnessed by every guild when they have the requisite "3 people alive attempt" while learning the fight), but if your decursers are oor or dead then you really can't keep a tank up with such low hp.

• Arawethion · 10/06/06, 2:37 AM

Originally Posted by Steelfleece

Heigan's 4k poison aura does not tick immediately, or quickly at all(I think it takes 5 seconds from when he ports until it ticks? Maybe even longer). If you wait until he actually teleports and/or yells "The end is upon you" before you move, you will make it in more than enough time and avoid any bonus splash.

Ok, so the presence or abscence of the extra splash is just random, and we were complacent with the transition because we never saw it for a while?

What about the MT? Which is to say, how often does mana burn go off--can he risk bringing Heigan near the raid as he's getting ready to transition? Or does he have to assume the extra splash will come, wait at 3 to survive it, and then run over the platform to 1 (or even directly to 2)?

Leviandan · 10/06/06, 2:40 AM

We've had that extra splash on the second transition almost every time for a few weeks now, if I remember correctly. It's annoying, but when you're aware of it it won't matter since you can just wait those extra few seconds for the splash before moving.

EDIT: Regarding tank deaths, they reaaally shouldn't happen, but if it does a backup tank would be nice. We had our MT die during the third dance-phase when Heigan was at 13% once. It got messy. He killed off all rogues except one, all damage casters, plenty of healers and all DPS warriors except one. I think getting him from 13% and down took as long or even longer than getting him from 100% to 13%. In the end he died with 4 people left alive.

• Arawethion · 10/06/06, 2:43 AM

Originally Posted by dojke

If you have a tank death, it's almost certainly a decursing problem. He simply doesn't hit at all (as witnessed by every guild when they have the requisite "3 people alive attempt" while learning the fight), but if your decursers are oor or dead then you really can't keep a tank up with such low hp.

We've had a literal "2 people alive" attempt that lasted 4 minutes (2 full dance cycles). It was an early attempt, and a combination of a good healer showing off is ability to last indefinitely, and both he and the main tank showing off their ability to dance, before we finally told them to wipe. It seems nobody gets ported when there aren't 3 legal targets.

Er, de-disease, right?

• Arawethion · 10/06/06, 2:44 AM

So, what causes the extra splash to appear or not appear? Just some randomless in how long he takes to cast the first splash after running off the platform? Or might it actually be dependent on the lag conditions in Naxx when you fight him?

dojke · 10/06/06, 2:49 AM

Who knows, it might be dependent on lag (we get it often and our server lags all the time), but it's so predictable and so avoidable that it really doesn't matter.

And yes, abolish disease. I use the term decurse generally due to the decursive name.

Steelfleece · 10/06/06, 3:02 AM

Your tank should be healed to the point and have enough HoT's, even a nature protection potion may be helpful here, such to survive an extra splash if it happens.

MatsT · 10/06/06, 3:29 AM

As i main tank i've found that there is no way to be sefe from both the "bugged" splash 3 and the first splash during the dance. I usually just go to position 1 and if there is a "bugged" splash i just take the dmg. Problem can arise if that splash is also bugged in the way that makes it a double splash, but if you are using titans as you should, you should survive even that. Taking a NR pot can also be helpful to absorb the damage of the "bugged" splash or if you miss some dance step.

It's very important that the rest of the raid don't move down too early until the possibility of a "bugged" splash has passed.

Queso · 10/06/06, 3:44 AM

It's just like getting a volley on Viscidus as he breaks or an extra wave of warriors on Noth, it's just a random timing issue and something you have to learn to deal with if you're going to beat the fight.

Edit: As for a backup tank we don't use one. Whenever our tank has died I just toss on sword and board since I'm usually holding back and sitting at ~90% of whatever he's at on KTM.

exog · 10/06/06, 5:32 AM

the extra splashes spice up the encounter imo!
and it punishes the cheap-o's who dont wanna use the preemptive nr pot!

burghy · 10/06/06, 8:41 AM

Ranged and healers come down after heigan ports on platform. Melee go on the platform 2-3s before port.
MT goes in position 3 right on the edge. Waits 1s after port and moves to position 1. You have enough time to get there before the dance begins and you avoid the extra splash if it happens.

Masq · 10/06/06, 9:06 AM

On a side note, as you've proven you can simply use 1-2 healers that can keep the MT up easily, so have your other healers wear DPS gear and DPS in phase 1. Also, for the first (and only the first) transition from Phase1 -> Phase 2, you don't have to have your melee go back onto the platform since Heigan ends in Position 2. Have them go 1->2->1, and they are ready to run right off the bat.

Before he teleports to Phase2 for the first time, you can probably hit somewhere between 45%-55%, and the less dances you have to do, the better.

darthgrimm · 10/06/06, 9:15 AM

Hello Hamlet.

The sollution is easy ... Re-invite Ming back to Sigil so he cand DPS the boss down before the frist dance ( Boss being a scrub and all :P )

Now on a serious note : WE have a main tank ( Unique ) who tanks the whole fight. I guess you can have a back-up tank if your main tank dies but that is usualy not the case .

Some tricks : Speed enchant on boots / Swiftness of zanza / Speed potion / Intercept Boss on platform and jump to part 1 Quick.

Boevis · 10/06/06, 12:57 PM

Boss abilities may have a cooldown, but for the majority, the AI has to actually choose to use the ability, it's not an automatic thing. We have had Nef Fear 10 seconds late resulting in both MT and OT getting feared, Noth summon as he teleports up leaving no time to kill warriors before champions. I think the most annoying occurance of this is the Green Dragons, I've seen Emeriss Corruption at 83%, Taerer split at 45%, one time Ysondre didn't do a 3rd summon of Druids after doing it at 40%.

I stand toward the back of the platform, and can safely make it into zone 1 before the aura by waiting until he actually ports up. People with slower reaction times can move to the corner of the platform a bit early and jump off after the MT makes it to the platform (ours doesn't intercept, he just cuts across).

The best advice I've heard on this fight is, if the same healers are dying to the dance every time, replace them with DPS or have them put on DPS gear. At worst you get him down a few more % before the teleport, at best someone learns to dance and he dies much sooner.

Artaxz · 10/06/06, 1:06 PM

There is no need to have an OT in this fight. The MT cannot be ported as long as he generates the most hate. Have all your healers dps save for 5 to heal MT/melee dps at the start.

Learn2dance GOD