Nite_Moogle

Finally a straight answer on what resilience actually does:
http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/f...34.htm?posts=1

I would imagine this will have some pretty big implications for Warriors.

 

• Fogbug

well it has some pretty big implications for every class that isn't affliction warlocks or shadow priests, really

 

Kasonic

Any numbers?

Considering an all-pvp set has something like 350 Resilience, I'd hope it's somewhere around Defense's level point-for-point.

 

• Fogbug

I'm really, really not looking forward to post-expansion WSG :|

guess I oughta get that last 11k now

 

• frmorrison

CMs rarely give up numbers. I doubt they will say what 1 point will do.

I think some Blizzard employees are watching fan sites like this one to ban people who violate a NDA.

The 8 piece PvP set for Priests (which has the highest), gives about 250. Now you can get more from other sources, maybe reaching 350, but you would gimp other stats.

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◊ Birdemani

I'm really concerned how this impacts Rampage, Flurry and Enrage. I will hopefully be less concerned when I find out the ratio of Relience:Crit.

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Dodo

I hope you can stack it to a level where (almost) no crits are possible from spells because it's only fair from a melee point of view (+defense negates MANY MANY crits)

 

Kasonic

Doesn't 440 defense only negate 5% crit?

 

maxpowers

pretty much, but as every class appears to be getting it (on their pvp sets), it'll probably just work out to further blizzards goal of extending the length of pvp conflicts. Though it does have some (especially) negative impacts for talents that are specific to critting, (seal fate builds, mage ignites, warrior flurrys, etc.).

 

Heidi

Assuming this works versus PCs (it appears to be on the pvp sets), this stat could have a substantial effect on frost mages, rogues and hunters, don't you think? Mages and rogues have already been concerned about the boost in HP everyone is getting making "bursty" classes less useful in PvP. Isn't this another example of negating burst ability?

Obviously, we don't know the mechanics of it yet, but I don't want my +50% chance to crit to become +35% because some warrior with 10k hp unbuffed (at 70 in the xpac) has 440 resiliance or something. Not that I lack faith that they'll figure something out, but I'm still a bit concerned about my, likely still, less hp, lack of "burst" and long-cooldown escape, range-making abilities. Frost will be fine, alot of the time with the ability to kite (2 classes) and what not, but a rogue?

 

Nite_Moogle

Wouldn't it be interesting if mobs could have resilience values as well? :ninja:

 

Muraevin

I am having nightmares of 9k hps mages who can fuckup 3 times fighting me and still kite me to death. How will it ever be possible to burst down a paladin? Imagine a 4 healer defense in wsg, will it be impossible to kill? Will any class that relies on burst damage to kill select other classes be able to do anything?

 

Rabid Rob

I believe resilience is being implemented to reduce pvp crits specifically and solely, so that pvp becomes a test of skill and not crititude for some classes.

Resilience may work against mobs, in which case, tanks are going to find it much easier to control the damage they take, and defense is going to take a back seat. I expect few mobs will have resilience ratings, as this would allow us to have far higher pve raid dps compared to pvp dps. Blizz can also link new abilities to crits, further increasing the gap between pvp and pve functionality and dps.

Note that players will likely have zero innate resilience, so that means players in pvp contests w/o resilience gear will be susceptible to far more damage and effects. This will actually increase the gear gap between those who have it and those who don't, as the haves will take far less damage and have far more health than the have-nots. Hopefully, the first levels of pvp gear will be really cheap and easy to get, but from what's been leaked, I have yet to see such intermediate levels of gear.

 

Crossbones

WSG and AB will need to be changed in some fashion. Rez timers and locations in AB would probably be enough but for WSG, I have no idea, some kind of flag debuff perhaps.

 

Raphiron

I doubt the ~250 resilience on the priest arena set will negate the crit chance opponents have by alot. I'm expecting the part where resilience reduces damage on crits to be the good part about the stat, and the reducement in crit chance being sort of a nice bonus, but nothing you notice alot.
If 200 resilience reduces the damage taken by crits by 20% but only reduces the crit chance by 2% I'll be quite happy from a pvp point of view.

EDIT: Just pulling numbers out of my ass to prove my idea of the stat :p

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Natural

Blizzard blue's have stated that they expect Resilience to be primarily a PVP stat and that +defense will be superior point-for-point when tanking in PVE.

 

impossible!

Seems like yet another attempt to encourage grouping, teamwork and class synergy. They've stated multiple times, now, that they want to increase the length of PvP battles and remove the two-shot god status that several players are currently accustom to.

 

Zyrxil

They may want to encourage that, but they're going way way WAYYYY too far, IMO. Resilience, Anti-Crit or Crit-Triggering-Defense talents, huge stamina buffs across the board, changes to CC, it just completely shifts the dynamic of PvP to be more Caster oriented than ever before.

 

torrent495

How so? The biggest impact that I can see from extended PvP fights is an increased emphasis on mana management, which will benefit warriors and rogues. The CC nerf as well. I'm skeptical that PvP will really slow down too much, though. Fights will be longer, but all how long could a 5v5 Arena fight possibly take?

 

Emeraude

Not that it matters since they're adding a defense rating.

I wouldn't be surprised if they took away the -crit from def and made raiding Warriors have to choose between static def and resilence.

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Jeht

I think it's premature to say they're going too far, let alone WAYYYY too far, unless of course you have actually pvp'ed in the alpha.

That being said, I do believe the days of rogues and mages 2 shotting people are probably on the way out.

 

Pyros

How does it change it to be caster oriented, when casters rely on mana to do dps. If the fights are gonna last forever, I'd say it makes melee classes better than casters.
As for how to kill people, I guess running their healers out of mana, but yea atm I'm quite curious, if you remove a lot of crit, there's no burst, so healing is gonna be easy, and if you can still get out of combat in 3-4secs to drink, then we're gonna have problems. I doubt blizzard are totally retarded tho, either resilience won't be THAT powerful, or something else will compensate.

 

Rabid Rob

Other ratings (crit/tohit) require 24 ratings to do 1% change, so by implication, 240 resilience would reduce enemy crit chance by 10% and crit damage by 10% * some scaling factor.

Depending on how you socket your epic armor, unless you go full out crit rating, I believe having 10% crit chance reduction would put you only slightly below todays epic geared crit chance. OTOH, if you socket your PvP set heavily into resilience, you can get 10 resilience rating per yellow gem, so you could increase that by about another 5% anti-crit.

Anyways, lowering our crit rate in PvP by 10% seems about right to properly seperate the PvP vs. PvE mechanics.

 

Zyrxil

Ok, it's an exaggeration, but what I mean, is, to achieve that one stated goal of making PvP matches last longer, they're implementing too many PvP changes, and they have less than 2 months to test these changes, and I think that's doing too much at once.


As for tilting the field toward casters, that's almost a seperate issue, but to me, casters scale much better in PvP than physical damage classes. As armor and general character stats get better, Physical damage classes have to deal with increased Stamina, Armor, Dodge, Parry, Block, and the occasional caster Shield. Magic damage has to deal with increased Stamina, their own Shields...and that's it.

Anti-Crit talents and Resilience are very obviously designed as yet another layer of Caster defense against Melees, as they are the ones with the highest crit rates, and the ones whose (auto) attacks will be most affected by "when crit, trigger defensive effect for next 8 second" style effects.

 

Sanctus

It seems to me like they might be overdoing it a little given what we're used to, but maybe for their long-term goals this is exactly what they want. Any one of those changes wouldn't have a huge effect by itself, so they decided to go with a multifaceted approach which has the added bonus of allowing a lot more player flexibility and choice (talents, equipment, sta, etc).

Consider too that there are many things working against these defensive changes such as the new talents/skills and equipment. If they held back too much then the normal power progression on the road to 70 might land us exactly where we're at now, which is clearly where Blizzard doesn't want to be.