In BC PvP primarily means group PvP in the Arenas. Will this Paladin still be impossible to kill when 3 Mages are unloading on him (while counterspelling possible heals)? Without these changes Arenas would be pretty pointless for healers (especially the poor Priests).

If we assume crit rating works like resilence then 25 resilence = 1% less crits and 1% less damage on crits. If most of the sets are hovering around 200 resilence you get 8% less crit and 8% less crit damage for around 10% less dps from burst. Seems about right.

At lvl 60, isn't 1% crit = 14 Crit Rating and 1% to hit = 10 Hit Rating? Why bother trying to theorycraft until someone gives some decent real numbers?

I'm just glad Blizzard is starting to actually tell us something about the expansion. For a company that is so successful, the way they communicate with their customer base is a huge mystery to me.

I'm interested on what resilence means for PvE content. >_>

We'll be very upset if things change after communication! I dunno. I think thats the excuse, but if you share information as you're doing it and its obvious to everyone as you're doing it that its likely to change, I don't see how we would get that upset. I think the more likely reason is they want the marketing. Frequent updates as to changes would, in fact, likely have the opposite effect, demonstrating to players that virtually everything is subject to change at almost any time.

It'd be nice to, I dunno, mid-way through a patch cycle, have a "this is the stuff we think is not quite working and we'll probably fix next patch" post by a CM or a Dev. Its a bit to ask and I realize there are literally thousands of things going on every moment, but moving Tactical Mastery or changing the way stacking debuffs work is stuff it'd be nice to see all in one place, every few weeks or so.

Backtotopic... I don't think this is necessarily a nerf for melee or casters at all. It applies equally to all types of damage, spell or melee or ranged, it appears. Its a nerf to one-shotting and "fast" fights. I think I agree that there are alot of changes being made with very little time to test them. My worry is there are too many variables to balance very well in the limited time (one month or almost two) they have.

Lots of HP + a modifier of the likelihood to be crit will serve their goal of making people more group-dependant only if the traditionally lower-hp classes have enough hp to make it through a 2 or 3 person MA train for a few seconds. As suggested, I think it will devalue the traditional "burst" classes, especially if they have also been traditionally balanced around having low hp and high burst and overall damage.

So, it really does matter if resiliance is 1 for 1 the same as crit rating, then it serves to basically eliminate the usefulness of any +crit gear you get (in pvp). Incidentally, if you look at the leaked PvP gear, it appears that, virtually without fail, as you gain say 24 crit rating from pvp gear, you also gain 20 resiliance. As some have pointed out, this makes the haves and have-nots gap get very wide (something I thought they were trying to avoid in this xpac). If they aren't roughly equivalent, then some other balance will appear.

I just don't want to sign up for my first arena season and find that my mage's super-leet burst dps at 60 has become a 5000 hp wet noodle unable to even get a shatter crit to a 10000 hp warlock thanks to the added resilience he's picked up. Not that I'd have any real chance of beating a warlock anyway. /wink wink nudge nudge

Then:
So where are you guys getting these numbers from?

Yeah I saw that too, I am more interested in where the 24 and 25 numbers the two posters were talking about for level 70 came from.

Possibly talking about at level 70, asuming a change of 1 per level.

Since the crit and resilience ratings on the Arena armor are roughly the same, they most likely just cancel each other out. So, a Rogue would still get his +30% Backstab crits and you would get your +50% Shatter crits.

That would only make sense if crit rating for 1 crit at level 60 was 60 or higher. Or should Shadowskin Gloves, available at level 35 and having a converted Crit Rating of 14 (Guessing based on 1% crit), be useless (or broken to the point of infinite crit, take your pick) until you are level 47 where it would give you 14% crit?

If it's linear, it's got a coefficient somewhere.

Shadowskin Gloves are unlikely to have a crit rating of 14. They're more likely to have a crit rating of whatever gives 1% crit at level 40 or so.

A while back, someone posted how much crit they got for 14 ratings up to level 65 or whatever the cap was at the time. A simple linear fit of +1 rating per level above 60 came pretty close to the numbers given, esp. considering blizzards oddball rounding. It's probably just a good fit of whatever weird equation they are using, OTOH, they could just be assigning arbitrary values.

Also, there's no reason to believe that crit ratings are handled by the same equation below 60 as they are above 60.

They'd need to boost some other stats on it as well then, otherwise it'd be severely underbudgeted for it's level.

I’d say long fights and weaker CC are anything but a caster advantage.

Not being particularily good at PVP maybe this is a wrong assumption but as a Mage in PVE gear i tend to rely on burst damage especially on classes such as warlocks for me to have any chance of survival. All the resilience in my eyes is making it much harder for a lot of classes that rely on crit and are geared and specced towards it.

Assuming mages are going to be the "glass cannon" class having less health then other classes on the whole they will be disadvantaged more then others. Affliction warlocks will be able to dot you up and shadow priests will be almost uneffected by resilience and i think this will make then even more overpowered then before. -So many a time i have nuked down a shadow priest and dying to SWP after they are dead :(

Over my point being resilience only makes shadow priests and warlocks insanely overpowered and doesnt really effect the rest, only that they wont be critting each other as much.

I personnally hate the idea of resilience and dont really understand the reason for it being there. Surely just the increase in HP will be enough for people not to get instagibed. I also feel sorry for the hunters - i know i wont be pvping with mine as things stand.

As has been mentioned, this makes classes who don't depend on crits more effective, and at least gives you the option to gear defensively and (hopefully) be just as effective in pvp as someone who gears themself offensively, which isn't the case now. This is another sign to me that prot warrior pvp could be viable (seems to be getting a little chilly down here in hades) :)

Also, something maybe no one has thought of: What if they change mob crit lvls? Right now it's 5% to crit from default attacks from all mobs, and they can't crit spells/special attacks (MS, shadowflame, etc.). What if this is changed in BC? Adding a higher crit lvl to certain mobs gives a new dynamic to play with, and adding an element to be crit by spells/abilities does as well. If this does happen, being a tank and healing a tank would get a whole lot more involved...