dbxwanderer

We seem to be having a problem with patchwerk priming on our ot's correctly. sometimes we only get 2 ot's primed and sometimes our MT get's primed... how do you set up the pull?

 

xarg

Have all the warriors stand on top of each other. If there's only the MT in range he will eat hatefuls. Give the MT a few seconds then start building aggro. Then have all your dps go in after.

The search function is a wonderful thing:
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=8534

 

◊ Quigon

Watchout for healing of bloodrage - that will mess up the list sometimes.
So will, bloodrage after pull by OT's or especially DPS tanks...
Lets see... shooting patchwerk as an OT. Attacking before the first 3 tanks get 1 melee swing in.

Basically those warriors need autoattack on as patchwerk is incoming, and start generating threat immediately - but they can never pass the MT. We have dps going all out within 2-3 seconds though because the list is established in the blink of an eye. Keeping enough threat to stay on it is just up to OT3 not sucking. To be fair, he needs to generally be hit relatively soon so he gets the rage to build threat - or by the other generally accepted theory, so that it builds hate on him. Either way, he needs rage. Still - the culprit is likely in there somewhere.

 

Grogzor

The way we go about it is as follows.

The MT is the one that gets "Primed"
Whoever has the most HP will get Hateful Striked, regardless of threat or anything else. The reason you may notice only 2 people being "primed" is that your healers are healing up your OTs fast enough it doesnt matter.

The way our healing works is, we divide the healers so that the Highest HP OT gets 4 Healers, the Second highest gets 3-4 and the last OT gets 2 Druids.

All other healers go to the MT.

If your main healers are doing their job fast enough, the last OT shouldnt get hit often. That is why you only give him two druids. He is the "last resort" before dps starts getting hit if your other healers are slow.

You can also get a mod that says in raid chat or whatever what each Hateful strike on the Tanks does. It basically shows you when it was dodged, missed or whatever, handy tool, not neccesary.

But when it comes time for me to remove your wings, and you, you must try to fly...

Click Here to see what makes me tic(k).

What Are You Going to Roll for Warhammer Online?

 

◊ Quigon

By primed he meant on the HS list.

 

Grogzor

if that is the case, totally based on HP. Our first attempt we kiled him, we werent positive and our warriors just autoattacked.

Threat means zil.

If someone isnt getting hit, either thy dodged or parried or your healers are fast on your other OTs. Lastly, make sure you OTs are within 5 yards of PW.

But when it comes time for me to remove your wings, and you, you must try to fly...

Click Here to see what makes me tic(k).

What Are You Going to Roll for Warhammer Online?

 

Scorned

We had a few mishaps with tank priming when first learning Patchwerk. We've come to the conclusion that once you've had all three OTs eat at least one hateful, it's virtually impossible for the cycle to break (barring tank deaths).

Our pull looks something like this:
1) MT stands at max arrow range. OTs stand about one yard in front of him.
2) MT shoots, primary and secondary OTs turn around and put their backs to Patchwerk so that they cannot parry during the opening moments. Melee DPS keep their distance from Patchwerk.
3) Healing progresses normally until the tertiary OT eats a hateful. This usually takes around 5 seconds to occur.
4) Primary and secondary OTs turn to face Patchwerk, melee DPS moves in, fight progresses normally.

We've never had a HS hit an unexpected target since we started this approach. Of course, your mileage may vary.

 

◊ Quigon

Well he chooses who on his list of 4 people to swing at based on their HP of course, but highest aggro he never swings at because thats the MT - he is one of the 4 on the list.

Highest HP takes the most hits, this is common knowledge.

However, if a tank stops attacking altogether, he will stop receiving HS hits altogether. You must keep your threat above a certain threshold to remain on the HS list. So its not a simple as "top 3 HP". You'll find that if you fall off the HS list, you may never get back on it, and some rogue with less HP does get on it.

 

Apparation

We've been beating our heads on the issue of HS tanks falling off the list for a couple of days. We think we've figured out what works best of us. We use reactive healing (Begin a 2.2-2.6k heal the instant your tank gets hit), and our HS rotations usually go something like: 1/2/3/1/2/1/2/1/2/1/2/3/1/2/1/2/1/2/3..ect

Tanks all standing ontop of each other, with HS tanks back turned to PW
MT shoots PW
No melee DPS for atleast 4 seconds (ranged all out).
All HS tanks will take the HS with no avoidance (can't dodge/block/parry facing away).
Go through 2 cycles of HS's (OT1/2/3/1/2/3) and then face PW to start dodging/parrying.

From this point on, if the 3rd OT (the one that we have issues with falling off) doesn't take a HS within ~10-15 seconds (meaing OT1/2 dodge or parry alot typically), which is 10 HS's, OT1 and OT2 face backwards to ensure they both eat a HS and let OT3 eat one.(edit, at any point in the fight when OT3 doesn't take a HS in this timeframe we do this)

We haven't downed him yet, but this solved our problem of HS OT3 continuously falling off the list at around the 1'ish minute mark and we can now last much much longer (MT died on our best go tonight at ~40% ahhh :) heh). We anticipate him dead next trip with this worked out for us now.

Apparation: PvE Shadow Priest

 

Rand

We also had problems with OT3 falling off the list, especially only having 1-2 healers, he wasn't getting hit with many HS's and was starved for rage (maybe 10-15 HS over the course of the entire fight) so he started taking rage pots instead of stoneshield (gear permitting) and the problem was solved.

 

exog

I took aggro from patcherk after mt had bowed him by using sprint... :) doubt ill do that again:)

 

PHx

Questions like these have almost always been answered before. You should run a quick search before re-asking the question.

Here is a thread I found particularly useful http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=8130

hope it helps

 

Lumi

Reactive Healing is generally a bad idea for every encounter, including patchwerk.

 

Thezilch

This has been our experience too, when learning Patchwerk. On paper, reactive healing for Patchwerk was a great idea, considering 3 OTs and the minimum time between each taking a HS. The problem, however, is we're not sitting on the server LAN.

OT takes a HS. OT's healers are smashing their macros that will cast a heal whenever their OT is below 100% HP. OT takes a second HS ~3.6sec later -- dead with his healers sometimes not even half-cast. Everyone is using 2.5sec casts; what happened? Everyone learned just how slow we were receiving health deficits, which was the primer for healer's macro to start casting a heal. Strangely, even these days, I will see our OT'S rage cap out before the UI catches the health deficit.

Considering the encounter can be as long as 7min, we decided quickly to abandon the macro'd, heal after hit.

 

Brodda Thep

I used to think hateful didn't have anything to do with hate. But that isn't true. Basically he will Hateful Strike whoever has the most HP of the 2-4 positions on the hate list who are in range. The highest hate person in range is obviously the MT.

So it is simle. Go in give your OTs about 15 seconds to get aggro and go. This time can be greatly reduced if you are evenly splitting up hatefuls. If you use two primary HS tanks and a 'buffer' tank you need to give that buffer tank extra time to get aggro or he will be quickly surpassed by the other melee since he isn't getting nearly the rage that the other tanks are getting.

There is no other trick to it. We used to wait till all three tanks got HSed then sent in DPS. But when we switched to a 2 HS one buffer tank setup we started having a lot of problems with the buffer tank losing the HS halfway through the fight.

 

• Arawethion

Ok, how about this:

Hateful Strike and Patchwerk's white hits both apply an invisible buff that increases threat generated by x% (maybe 100%)? for T seconds.

--Explains the obvious positive feedback loop surrounding HS tank selection (sorry, I really don't thing the Rage generation alone is enough to do it).
--Explains observation that KTM correctly predicts MT changes (something which is really sketchy under the "HS and white hits both add constant threat scheme").

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Apparation

There are many guilds that make this work and down him, works for us the best out of all strats so far.

Apparation: PvE Shadow Priest

 

Thezilch

Interesting.. what does your macro/addon use its primer to start casting a heal?

As I described above, reactive healing was not plausible, unless healers are Blizz HQ neighbors or your server is just that amazing. My guess is the latter. Obviously, if latency allows, it is the safest / most efficient strategy.

 

xarg

Especially being an Australian guild, there's no way we'd try using reactive healing :O

Personally I don't think hateful adds threat at all. It just gives your tank an assload of rage to work with, and generate threat with. So in a round-about way it does increase threat, but only by giving the warrior rage to build threat with. Other than that, the 2-4 on threat primer seems to be correct.

 

Zoner

We have been doing patchwerk for 6 weeks now with a reactive healing mod tailored for patchwerk.

http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/a...patchwerk.html


It does work and even has its own problems, but not enough of them to change the strat now for us.

Problems are:

Druids without Improved Healing Touch can't be on Hateful OT duty.
Lag spikes on healers can kill OT's
High latency on healers can kill OT's (i.e. aussie healers, though if they are priests their heals are still fast enough most nights)
There is little or no time to do anything between your heals, so using potions, innervate, etc is more difficult (you must wait for an opening in the HS timing due to parry and dodge)
Its tiring spamming a button for 6 to 7 minutes non stop :) Ideally you hit it 10 times a second.


But the pros are pretty good:

We get to make fun of healers for not doing something as simple as hitting a single button
There is not much to teach, merely install and configure the mod to heal an amount on a specific tank then let it go
You get to watch the tanks constantly get healed a few ms before they take damage again (its quite exciting :)
It saves massive amounts of mana, as your heal is always necessary and never needs to be cancelled, and strings of parrys and dodges translate directly into mana back for all healers

 

Whitemane

You know, you can take mods too far ... :/ Without the healer element on this fight, it's probably the worst fight in the history of the mmorpg genre.

 

Lumi

You've listed some pretty high requirements for this to work. It won't work on Kil'Jaeden 90% of the time for sure.

 

Zoner

Lag spikes generaly wipe you on Patchwerk anyway. But if the lag server side it ends up making the fight easier. The timing requirements became noticeably tighter after the latest round of server hardware upgrades on our realm.

In this case its possible to beat Blizzards somewhat extreme designs in Naxx with a mod. Several fights in Naxx are extremely sensitive to network conditions, which is a bunch of crap really. Patchwerk, Thaddius, and 4H (I'm convinced invisible void zones are due to unreliable data packets being dropped). At least you can 'patch' the patchwerk fight with a mod :) The others have no leeway or forgiveness really.

 

deric

This is patently false and can be easily tested.

Get your primary HS OTs to do nothing at all with the rage they get from HS.

As long as they were allowed to take the first HSes and assuming evenly-distributed healing, they will continue to take HSes even with zero threat generation on their part.

The only OT who is in danger of falling off the list is the tertiary HS OT who only takes very infrequent HSes and will stop taking any at all if his threat generation falls behind melee dps threat.

 

Reali

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