My guild is currently progressing in aq40. I kept my previous MD/Ruin spec which have me consistantly performing better than similarly geared warlocks and keeping up with most mages in BWL. However since we have been progressing in AQ40 I have noticed that other warlocks seem to be performing better than I am. Is there a more favorable build than MD/Ruin for AQ40 (and soon Naxx) and what kind of strategies do other warlock use to maximise their damage output.

Maybe you could try DS/Ruin? Our better geared warlocks run with either succy or fellhunter sacrificied and their lesser geared classmates hand out their imp-auras.

Ofc, if are on a imp duty, you'll loose the aggro reduction compared to MD/Ruin, but on the other hand you'll gain instant corruption and improved lifetap, which both increase your utility by quite a bit.

MD/Ruin was destroyed in the last patch.

Take SM/Ruin if you want to spam and be able to provide an imp. Take my personal favorite the trispec (7/21/21+2, also called DS/Ruin), which I personally think is the best raiding build, but you are cripppled if you are required to provide an imp.

Amazingly, Conflag builds can put out equivalent level damage as well. I went NF/Conflag for C'thun, and I truly enjoy it. Most fights are not aggro sensitive for one reason or another, so you have a cheap nuke that hits hard to spam (SP) and heavy burst dmg as well. You'll use more consumables than DS/Ruin and SM/Ruin, but it's an awesome choice. I adore the extra range I get on affliction (NF is the most overrated talent of all time) which can mean a lot as well on the highly mobile fights to be found (Skeram, Sartura, Emps, C'thun, Ouro).

I'll agree 100% on the fact that MD/Ruin was obliterated in it's utility last patch, but I think the 7/21/21+2 build is the most versatile of what is available. Though you lose out on the -threat reduction of imp, you are still providing the tank with an improved blood pact instead of a gimped one. Your healthstones scale out a bit better and on fights where you're not on imp detail, you provide a longevity that is not otherwise accessible to warlocks without DS or an ample supply of willing healers.

Some people are also not aware that SM only applies to base damage of your spell, it's not a percentage applied on top of your damage gear. So the benefit you 'think' (sometimes) you're getting is really minimal and hardly worth the 30 talent points. I personally put the remaining 2 in the 7/21/21 into suppression, so I know my corruptions will not get resisted.

They changed SM like 6-8 months ago to include +damage gear.

It really depends on how much of the time you are asked to have your imp out. If you only have to use the imp rarely, DS/Ruin is great (and the VW sac is pretty awesome for soloing), but if you need the imp, an awful lot of those demonology points are going to waste in raids. I'm currently 9/21/21 (though not anywhere near AQ40!) but since I've always got my imp out I'm probably going to switch to 30/0/21 very soon.

Also, how much do you really need the aggro reduction from MD? If you can live without it there are a lot of damage-increasing places to put those 30 points...which of course will make pulling aggro easier, always thought that was kinda weird ;-)

Since AQ40 came out they've introduced a LOT of encounters that (thankfully) get the hell away from threat management and tank n' spank look more towards mobility, burst damage, high DPS and lastability. Because of this (and the DS+MD nerf) MD/Ruin has been all but phased out.

A NF/Conflag build has mobility, burst damage and high DPS by the bucketload, while DS/Ruin gives you the option of what you want to excel at. If you want DPS, sac the Succubus. If you wan't lastability, sac the VW/FH.

Oh god, this old myth just refuses to die, doesn't it? Sigh.

So the consensus seems to be that NF/Conflag is way better than SM/Ruin? Is it just a matter of the numbers working out to more damage with NF/Conflag or are there more specific reasons? Does the presence of a couple fire mages in my raid mean I should definitely go NF/Conflag?

Thanks for the interesting comments on this thread - I'm just having a hard time deciding what my new spec should be :-)

I keep seeing it pop up and since I'm not a fan of SM, I've never tested it. It's my understanding it wasn't a myth.

SM not applying to gear is not myth. It is, however, history.

And compared to SM/Ruin or DS/Ruin, NF/CF excels in fights where burst damage matters. And there are a lot more of those in AQ40 and Naxx than MC/BWL.

I prefer SM/Ruin over NF/Conflag.

There are a lot of spots in Aq40 where there are many adds that are dottable, even as MD/Ruin nothing stops you from at least throwing agony on everything with 6 legs. Maybe they are hellfiring when you rain of fire? Aoe makes a huge difference in DPS in Aq40. Are you looking at the damage meters to see how are they beating you? In Damagemeters 5.0 (actually I think the option started earlier versions) if you choose parse all events you can hoover your mouse and hold the ctrl key to see the damage break down of there spells, i.e how many shadowbolts they cast their average damage and total damage, same with your other spells. If you see that they are casting the same spells as you in the same proportion is there average shadow bolt higher? Maybe they have choosen better gear upgrades.

Jumping to a new spec isn't the solution to every DPS problem. I am MD/Ruin and I generally top the damage meters for locks and I am almost always in top 10 for DPS except in encounters where I am tanking (ouro, twin emps) or a few like the princess and satura where I am trying to pull aggro with constatn dots to pull aggro after fears and whirlwinds. Any tank and spank encounters I can make the top 5 for DPS. Also know what upgrades are worth it for you class, i.e. if your gearing up doomcaller, the shoulders and head are huge upgrades over t2 where the legs/boots and robes are minor upgrades so get those last. Are you concentrating on +hit or +damage gear? What are the other locks concentrating on?

It's 'usually' easier to get a good gear for SM/Ruin or SD/Ruin than Confalgrate specs, as you can use some of those nice +shadowdmg items with great success. Depends ofc on what items you already have. With NF-Conf specs you'll be competing from the same items with mages while with SM(DS)/Ruin you have few items tailored for just warlocks availalble.

Shadow-only items are few, far between and overall: pretty crap.

Threat reduction aside, there's nothing for raiding that MD offers that you can't get with DS/Ruin, which also gets you instant-cast Corruption and Improved Life Tap. With gear and buffs being equal, DS/Ruin will always give better DPS than MD/Ruin.

As for NF/CF vs SM/Ruin - SM/Ruin is better for those fights where you can't spam SP off the bat as soon as you're done with the initial DoTs. But with NF/CF, even if you use SBolt and switch to SP, it still offers DPS that is at least comparable, if not superior, to SM/Ruin. And NF/CF is a much more synergistic spec with the fire mages that are much more likely to be part of your raid than shadow priests.

My only problem with NF/CF is those times when I get aggro because the SBolt I cast after a Conflag just happen to become instant, or a Conflag crit follows a SBolt crit (cast Conflag while the SBolt is still en route).

Noob question. Why can't you use Shadow burn on C'thun?

You can. You just end up burning a lot of shards.

Without a conflag/fire spec, your limited in what you can use to kill eyes. Immolate/conflag just destroys eyes so much that Im respecing to 8/8/35 to help us while we work on putting C'Thun into the ground.

If you like SM/Ruin, what's functionally different from DS/Ruin with a sacrificed Succubus? Raiding wise, you're only losing 6 yards on Affliction spells and losing a 42 stamina buff. I doubt you were using any other pet, and I doubt that Imp was doing anything besides providing the buff anyway.

Put your filler points somewhere besides Improved Imp if you really think someone with Improved Imp *must* be in the tank group. The raid gains more letting the DS/Ruin person do what the spec is meant to do and using the SM/Ruin people for tank groups than horribly gimping the damage of the DS/Ruin person. DS/Ruin is consistently higher damage than SM/Ruin under normal circumstances (sacrificed Succubus), and the Voidwalker buff allows for continuous casting on Patchwerk without burdening your healers and it lets you do something besides cast a curse on Loatheb.

Someone has to be the tank group Warlock, but if you have one of those already, and you're dedicated to PvE, there's not a good argument against DS/Ruin.

Stacking crit and using general spell damage instead of shadow damage on gear goes a long way toward making Searing Pain a good idea for eyes, for those who don't want to spec Conflag. Alone, I can take down an eye in about 3 SPs if none crit. Luckily I'm not alone and I get a decent number of crits.

Band of dark dominion, Ebony flame gloves? :o

There's a lot of better choices than the band, but Ebony Flame are better than tier 3. WTB Dark Storm Gauntlets. ; ;