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Old 10/09/06, 1:00 PM   #1
Severed
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Warlock
 
Sargeras
My guild is currently progressing in aq40. I kept my previous MD/Ruin spec which have me consistantly performing better than similarly geared warlocks and keeping up with most mages in BWL. However since we have been progressing in AQ40 I have noticed that other warlocks seem to be performing better than I am. Is there a more favorable build than MD/Ruin for AQ40 (and soon Naxx) and what kind of strategies do other warlock use to maximise their damage output.

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Old 10/09/06, 1:07 PM   #2
zepi
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Darksorrow (EU)
Maybe you could try DS/Ruin? Our better geared warlocks run with either succy or fellhunter sacrificied and their lesser geared classmates hand out their imp-auras.

Ofc, if are on a imp duty, you'll loose the aggro reduction compared to MD/Ruin, but on the other hand you'll gain instant corruption and improved lifetap, which both increase your utility by quite a bit.

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Old 10/09/06, 1:09 PM   #3
Necrotoid
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Lightning's Blade
MD/Ruin was destroyed in the last patch.

Take SM/Ruin if you want to spam and be able to provide an imp. Take my personal favorite the trispec (7/21/21+2, also called DS/Ruin), which I personally think is the best raiding build, but you are cripppled if you are required to provide an imp.

Amazingly, Conflag builds can put out equivalent level damage as well. I went NF/Conflag for C'thun, and I truly enjoy it. Most fights are not aggro sensitive for one reason or another, so you have a cheap nuke that hits hard to spam (SP) and heavy burst dmg as well. You'll use more consumables than DS/Ruin and SM/Ruin, but it's an awesome choice. I adore the extra range I get on affliction (NF is the most overrated talent of all time) which can mean a lot as well on the highly mobile fights to be found (Skeram, Sartura, Emps, C'thun, Ouro).

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Old 10/09/06, 1:44 PM   #4
chuckg
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Orc Warlock
 
Executus
Originally Posted by Necrotoid
MD/Ruin was destroyed in the last patch.

Take SM/Ruin if you want to spam and be able to provide an imp. Take my personal favorite the trispec (7/21/21+2, also called DS/Ruin), which I personally think is the best raiding build, but you are cripppled if you are required to provide an imp.
I'll agree 100% on the fact that MD/Ruin was obliterated in it's utility last patch, but I think the 7/21/21+2 build is the most versatile of what is available. Though you lose out on the -threat reduction of imp, you are still providing the tank with an improved blood pact instead of a gimped one. Your healthstones scale out a bit better and on fights where you're not on imp detail, you provide a longevity that is not otherwise accessible to warlocks without DS or an ample supply of willing healers.

Some people are also not aware that SM only applies to base damage of your spell, it's not a percentage applied on top of your damage gear. So the benefit you 'think' (sometimes) you're getting is really minimal and hardly worth the 30 talent points. I personally put the remaining 2 in the 7/21/21 into suppression, so I know my corruptions will not get resisted.

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Old 10/09/06, 1:48 PM   #5
Bibdy
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Orc Warlock
 
Bonechewer
They changed SM like 6-8 months ago to include +damage gear.

There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.

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Old 10/09/06, 1:56 PM   #6
Jaithra
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
N/A
It really depends on how much of the time you are asked to have your imp out. If you only have to use the imp rarely, DS/Ruin is great (and the VW sac is pretty awesome for soloing), but if you need the imp, an awful lot of those demonology points are going to waste in raids. I'm currently 9/21/21 (though not anywhere near AQ40!) but since I've always got my imp out I'm probably going to switch to 30/0/21 very soon.

Also, how much do you really need the aggro reduction from MD? If you can live without it there are a lot of damage-increasing places to put those 30 points...which of course will make pulling aggro easier, always thought that was kinda weird ;-)

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Old 10/09/06, 1:57 PM   #7
GokieKS
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For AQ40 and Naxx, NF/CF is my preferred spec. And though I still hold that DS/Ruin (I've always done it 9/21/21) is the best spec for raiding boss encounters, there are only a few fights where it's immensely superior - Patchwerk and Loatheb being the big ones in Naxx (among those I've tried or have a good working knowledge about). NF/CF, on the other hand, is MUCH better for almost any trash, and making C'Thun a much more fun fight IMO.

"You live and learn. At any rate, you live."
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Old 10/09/06, 2:03 PM   #8
Bibdy
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Orc Warlock
 
Bonechewer
Since AQ40 came out they've introduced a LOT of encounters that (thankfully) get the hell away from threat management and tank n' spank look more towards mobility, burst damage, high DPS and lastability. Because of this (and the DS+MD nerf) MD/Ruin has been all but phased out.

A NF/Conflag build has mobility, burst damage and high DPS by the bucketload, while DS/Ruin gives you the option of what you want to excel at. If you want DPS, sac the Succubus. If you wan't lastability, sac the VW/FH.

There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.

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Old 10/09/06, 2:59 PM   #9
Greybone
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by chuckg
Some people are also not aware that SM only applies to base damage of your spell, it's not a percentage applied on top of your damage gear.
Oh god, this old myth just refuses to die, doesn't it? Sigh.

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Old 10/09/06, 3:04 PM   #10
Jaithra
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
N/A
So the consensus seems to be that NF/Conflag is way better than SM/Ruin? Is it just a matter of the numbers working out to more damage with NF/Conflag or are there more specific reasons? Does the presence of a couple fire mages in my raid mean I should definitely go NF/Conflag?

Thanks for the interesting comments on this thread - I'm just having a hard time deciding what my new spec should be :-)

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Old 10/09/06, 3:26 PM   #11
chuckg
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Orc Warlock
 
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Originally Posted by Greybone
Oh god, this old myth just refuses to die, doesn't it? Sigh.
I keep seeing it pop up and since I'm not a fan of SM, I've never tested it. It's my understanding it wasn't a myth.

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Old 10/09/06, 3:35 PM   #12
GokieKS
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SM not applying to gear is not myth. It is, however, history.

And compared to SM/Ruin or DS/Ruin, NF/CF excels in fights where burst damage matters. And there are a lot more of those in AQ40 and Naxx than MC/BWL.

"You live and learn. At any rate, you live."
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Old 10/09/06, 3:40 PM   #13
Mimesis
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Korgath
NF/CF is situationally good DPS, while SM/Ruin is overall the better spec, in naxx and AQ........Imo.

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Old 10/09/06, 3:48 PM   #14
Fres
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Gnome Warlock
 
Mal'Ganis
I prefer SM/Ruin over NF/Conflag.


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Old 10/09/06, 4:01 PM   #15
Myonax
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Myonax
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There are a lot of spots in Aq40 where there are many adds that are dottable, even as MD/Ruin nothing stops you from at least throwing agony on everything with 6 legs. Maybe they are hellfiring when you rain of fire? Aoe makes a huge difference in DPS in Aq40. Are you looking at the damage meters to see how are they beating you? In Damagemeters 5.0 (actually I think the option started earlier versions) if you choose parse all events you can hoover your mouse and hold the ctrl key to see the damage break down of there spells, i.e how many shadowbolts they cast their average damage and total damage, same with your other spells. If you see that they are casting the same spells as you in the same proportion is there average shadow bolt higher? Maybe they have choosen better gear upgrades.

Jumping to a new spec isn't the solution to every DPS problem. I am MD/Ruin and I generally top the damage meters for locks and I am almost always in top 10 for DPS except in encounters where I am tanking (ouro, twin emps) or a few like the princess and satura where I am trying to pull aggro with constatn dots to pull aggro after fears and whirlwinds. Any tank and spank encounters I can make the top 5 for DPS. Also know what upgrades are worth it for you class, i.e. if your gearing up doomcaller, the shoulders and head are huge upgrades over t2 where the legs/boots and robes are minor upgrades so get those last. Are you concentrating on +hit or +damage gear? What are the other locks concentrating on?

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