Loatheb Survival question - Page 2

Kalman · 10/10/06, 10:19 AM

The only bandage-buddy we use is one druid bandaging the mage who's keeping the ignite rolling. In our scheme, druids are the odd men out for the spore buff, so their DPS tends to be lowest of any of the healers.

And yes, we use the scheme the OP posted. Pot on engage, absorb, pot/bandage, absorb, bandage, healthstone, pot/bandage, absorb, bandage if you have to but preferably just kill him. We use a Hakkar heart, Ony head (if possible - we've done it without, too), and the EPL 5% buff. Most people use a Spirit of Zanza as well as food buffs.

Playered · 10/10/06, 10:56 AM

How does melee as alliance count for dooms and poison? Ive seen several sources that say (assuming 3x T1 and 2x T3) JoL effectivly heals around the same amount as doom deals damage over the fight.

Now on paper that sounds good, but is it enough to ensure survival without needing to bandage or be as reliant on GSPP as other people?

Is it worth using a GNPP (pre-fight) ontop of a GSPP to absorb the slow poison damage u take too? but i guess by the time the GNPP runs out you will be about 2mins in and as you have no dooms, your better off just letting JoL heal it up by itself anyway.

Grombar · 10/10/06, 11:08 AM

I dont know about anyone else but as a rogue I was at near 7k HP fully buffed and was never in danger of dying. My experiance is limited since we've only gone 1 full out run and a few ppl messed up thus causing a 10% wipe but I had no problems keeping my HP topped off or near enough until the tank died and Loatheb turned and smacked me. This was just using Major Trolls, Pally judgement and crusader procs since I didnt have my Heroism card yet and still havnt gotten my 2 piece BS. Should be easier when we go at him this week since I now have a heroism card to toss into the mix.

Kalman · 10/10/06, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Playered

How does melee as alliance count for dooms and poison? Ive seen several sources that say (assuming 3x T1 and 2x T3) JoL effectivly heals around the same amount as doom deals damage over the fight.

Now on paper that sounds good, but is it enough to ensure survival without needing to bandage or be as reliant on GSPP as other people?

Is it worth using a GNPP (pre-fight) ontop of a GSPP to absorb the slow poison damage u take too? but i guess by the time the GNPP runs out you will be about 2mins in and as you have no dooms, your better off just letting JoL heal it up by itself anyway.

JoL doesn't eliminate the need to bandage or GSPP; basically, for alliance JoL allows you to ignore the poison damage, while horde (presumably) use Poison Cleansing Totem for the same purpose.

Our rogue lead also made up some Elixir of Poison Resistance, which are useful late in the fight if a doom is going to take you really low and you can't risk a poison tick, or if you're poisoned and need to bandage. No cooldown, doesn't interfere with your pot timer.

Playered · 10/10/06, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Kalman

JoL doesn't eliminate the need to bandage or GSPP; basically, for alliance JoL allows you to ignore the poison damage, while horde (presumably) use Poison Cleansing Totem for the same purpose.

Oh? i was just informed that JoL healed _MUCH_ more than the poison damage did... more on par with the amount doom does.
And that crusader/other source of healing (heroism, bloodfang, bonescythe, warrior abilities etc) *almost* countered the poison damage by themselves.

One other interesting thing, have people considered the use of double-bandaging to increase the amount healed? its hard to pull off... but its possible to get 2 applications of bandage on you at the same time, thus resulting in 4k healed for the usual cooldown...

Murgen · 10/10/06, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Playered

Originally Posted by Kalman

JoL doesn't eliminate the need to bandage or GSPP; basically, for alliance JoL allows you to ignore the poison damage, while horde (presumably) use Poison Cleansing Totem for the same purpose.

Oh? i was just informed that JoL healed _MUCH_ more than the poison damage did... more on par with the amount doom does.
And that crusader/other source of healing (heroism, bloodfang, bonescythe, warrior abilities etc) *almost* countered the poison damage by themselves.

Dual wielding with flurry I only use GSPP. JoL doesnt do as much using a slow 2h with MS; I end up bandaging 2-3 times and using a healthstone on top of GSPP.

Tuco · 10/10/06, 12:36 PM

this is what I made for our guild, and is what we use:

GSP before fight
1. GSP
2. Blocked
3. HS
4. Bandage
5. Nothing
6. Bandage
7. GSP/HS

The beauty about my rotation is that it allows people to use GSP/HS at Mark 7, and once you get it in farm mode, it allows you to only use 2 GSPs if everyone works right. We haven't had someone get killed (without them messing up) early.

Kalman · 10/10/06, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Playered

Originally Posted by Kalman

JoL doesn't eliminate the need to bandage or GSPP; basically, for alliance JoL allows you to ignore the poison damage, while horde (presumably) use Poison Cleansing Totem for the same purpose.

Oh? i was just informed that JoL healed _MUCH_ more than the poison damage did... more on par with the amount doom does.
And that crusader/other source of healing (heroism, bloodfang, bonescythe, warrior abilities etc) *almost* countered the poison damage by themselves.

One other interesting thing, have people considered the use of double-bandaging to increase the amount healed? its hard to pull off... but its possible to get 2 applications of bandage on you at the same time, thus resulting in 4k healed for the usual cooldown...

Bandages are cheap, repairs are not.

Looking at our meters for our most recent kill (5:33, 5%, Ony, and Hakkar world buffs):

JoL healed me for 12798, of which 29% was overheal. 5:33 kill, so most of that overheal was during the first phase where doom isn't hitting
Bandaged for 5750 (I lost one bandage tick to a spore whacking me, I think)
Healthstoned for 1320

Shadow damage taken 13,222 - this does *not* include damage absorbed by pots
Nature damage 5,684, I used curepoison elixirs twice

Without bandaging, I'd be dead.

edit: Looking at logs from rogues with 8/8 BF or 2/8 BS:

JoL: 14499, Bonescythe proc: 1638
JoL: 11259, Bonescythe: 1729
JoL: 13932, Bonescythe: 937

etc.

Bonescythe proc is worth about as much as Crusader is for healing purposes.

Nurru · 10/10/06, 1:57 PM

Have any of you alliance fury warriors tried a set like:
Heroism Card
2 Lifestealing weapons (Or maybe Crusader?)
Judgement of Light

I'm somewhat curious how much regen that would give.

Failure · 10/10/06, 2:05 PM

Our order is:

pre-pot

1. Absorbed
2. Let it tick, bandage after, drink a shadow pot after
3. Abosrbed
4. bandage after.
5. hs (1440 variety imo)
6. bandage after, [maybe drink a shadow pot]

Thing is, we're killing Loatheb right before doom 6 at best, before doom 7 at worst. We'd have to see doom 8 for the last GSPP to make a difference, so most the time, we're getting off with only 2 shadow pots used in the fight. Either, you last the longest if you always prioritize your bandage cooldown, since it's the shortest. It's the same order overall, but I think the 2nd doom should be bandaged, not absorbed, it basically should be delaying your death 1 extra doom?

Also, as far as your death, are you sure you aren't pulling healing aggro on a spore during a bandage, or something? Having a bandage interrupted can cause a death for sure.

Murgen · 10/10/06, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by Nurru

Have any of you alliance fury warriors tried a set like:
Heroism Card
2 Lifestealing weapons (Or maybe Crusader?)
Judgement of Light

I'm somewhat curious how much regen that would give.

Another warrior in my guild tried it. I doubt he saved his swstats data, but I can tell you he still had to take as many GSPP. He switched heroism out for a dps trinket the next week.

Igniter · 10/10/06, 8:07 PM

A paladin can survive with one gspp. Nerf :D (Might have to combat pot at the end if the kill isn't quick enough)

Chaotik · 10/10/06, 8:14 PM

idk I don't use bandages rarely or i'll interupt it mid way because im full .. I can pretty much heal to full with duel crusader + bloodthirst and JoL

Morfina · 10/10/06, 8:36 PM

I don't really understand the order people are using to be honest. Why not go like so:

With trolls blood:
1[2:10] -550 (1950 absorbed) -> Use GSPP
2[2:40] -980 (1950 absorbed) -> bandage
3[3:10] -2550 -> Use Healthstone
4[3:40] -3540 -> Use Bandage
5[4:10] -3970 -> Use GSPP
6[4:40] -4400 (1950 absorbed) -> Use Bandage

Without trolls blood:
1[2:10] -550 (1950 absorbed) -> Use GSPP
2[2:40] -1100 (1950 absorbed) -> Bandage
3[3:10] -2550 -> Use Healthstone
4[3:40] -3660 -> Use Bandage
5[4:10] -4210 -> Use GSPP
6[4:40] -4760 -> Use Bandage

If you haven't lost enough HP that 4:40 minus that non-absorbed HP will kill you, you can omit the bandage at 2:40 - In most cases, you won't bandage at 2:40.

Am I missing something in the above order? This order seems to smoothen the HP loss out somewhat, preventing the possibly fatal 'After 5' shown in most orders here.

Or maybe I'm just too tired, but...what am I missing???

• Hamlet · 10/10/06, 8:43 PM

Originally Posted by Morfina

I don't really understand the order people are using to be honest. Why not go like so:

With trolls blood:
1[2:10] -550 (1950 absorbed) -> Use GSPP
2[2:40] -980 (1950 absorbed) -> bandage
3[3:10] -2550 -> Use Healthstone
4[3:40] -3540 -> Use Bandage
5[4:10] -3970 -> Use GSPP
6[4:40] -4400 (1950 absorbed) -> Use Bandage

Without trolls blood:
1[2:10] -550 (1950 absorbed) -> Use GSPP
2[2:40] -1100 (1950 absorbed) -> Bandage
3[3:10] -2550 -> Use Healthstone
4[3:40] -3660 -> Use Bandage
5[4:10] -4210 -> Use GSPP
6[4:40] -4760 -> Use Bandage

If you haven't lost enough HP that 4:40 minus that non-absorbed HP will kill you, you can omit the bandage at 2:40 - In most cases, you won't bandage at 2:40.

Am I missing something in the above order? This order seems to smoothen the HP loss out somewhat, preventing the possibly fatal 'After 5' shown in most orders here.

Or maybe I'm just too tired, but...what am I missing???

So . . . what happens at Doom 7?